Sexist prick alert!

So wearing my summer dress and generally all dolled up for a massive work summer party I hear from one of the devs from a remote location that "wow, I do not look like a developer" and "I look like I should have things explained to me at a high overview ha-ha-ha" but it was "a compliment" so me getting pissed was "overreacting" and I "should calm down"

Sorry but no.

Please do not ever say anything like that to any female developer, even if you mean it "as a compliment" (that sounds like.. you know.. like you're saying women generally prefer make up to thinking)

That's lame af if you ask me

@Alice true that

Yeah that’s a veritable douche, that is

@AlexDeLarge we’re in agreement

I think you don't quite get that "looking like a developer" usually means ranging at about 3/10.

Ever thought how a well-built man would be treated if he put on just half the amount of sexiness that is totally normal for female summer dress?

@AlexDeLarge wait its not a compliment to say you want to look at somebody their breasts?

I guess I found out why Im not having a gf yet.

DISCLAIMER: the above message was full of sarcasm. This is not who I am, Im to shy to talk to girls :D

I don't give compliments to any woman at work. Safer that way.

But hey, if you look good, and are all dolled up as you put it, expect some attention. No point in getting pissed at someone for what could be a legitimate compliment.

@segfault0xff Right. Sorry but no. I have no problems taking compliments from men and believe or not I'm even against the whole women in tech deserve special treatment bullshit. However:

"You look great tonight"
!=
"you look like I'd have to explain things to you"

I mean.. if you call this a legitimate compliment we should probably drop the discussion altogether and just agree to disagree.

@aerfromenes maybe he has trouble talking to women.. it happens.

You just shocked him. He couldn't believe that someone that looks good could also think. I hate tech cliches too. Tech guys are considered to be either too skinny or obese as hell. So i decided to build some muscle and become @gymmerdeveloper

@gymmerDeveloper I'm not obese

@segfault0xff

In my opinion rules like "you should not compliment (female or otherwise) coworkers with their appearance" or "never discuss your sex life at the office" are total bullshit.

But it's all about context — there's about a hundred miles between shouting a random "you have gorgeous tits" and "I love your new haircut".

Sadly a lot of people don't understand that it's not about sensitivities or rules, it's about basic human civility, respect and morals.

Civility is not rigid, it's based on ongoing communication, listening to feedback, apologizing for unintended insults, carefully nurturing relationships.

I have a (female) team mate, with her questions like "have you impregnated your girlfriend yet" pass in conversation to which I respond "show me which hole I use, again?" — we've known each other for years, she knows my girlfriend, we've used piles of mdma together — you know... context.

Doesn't mean I'm having the same talk with the new intern in the elevator — In that context, the same remarks would shoot way past harassment territory.

It all seems like common sense — don't be a dick, treat people based on their character, skills and merits, show some restraint when it comes to hormone driven instincts, listen & respond to feedback.

Your conversations don't have to be sterilized, just respectful.

@Alice (☞ﾟ∀ﾟ)☞

@bittersweet better safe than sorry man

I can actually understand you but it was just a joke. The one that didn’t succeeded. Just a joke. People come up with bad jokes really often.

Please, forgive him

It’s actually interesting how Russian people differ from English-speaking European culture people.

I might be wrong, but in our society that joke is actually good, it means “stereotypical developer girl has an image of ugly, bad-looking nerd, but you’re out of that. You look so pretty that I might be thought that you’re not a developer at all, ha ha ha”

Yeah, that kind of jokes require the same background and context. But if you imagine yourself watching say Big Bang theory where developer girls are nerdy and ugly, and someone makes that kind of joke, like “if that’s a dev girl, you’re not a dev girl then”, should you be triggered by that? I think no, because of appropriate context

That means that joke probably wasn’t sexist. It was just lacking appropriate context

So never say to developer that he/she don’t look like developer ?
^^ and yeah I am trolling

Wow, guys just don’t get it 🤯Dumbfounded. Sorry @aerfromenes

I think ya'll are wrong. It's a joke, not a compliment. I get called blondie sometimes too, it's a joke. Just calm down. Just a joke, probably.

@aerfromenes I agree the gist of your rant, you are obviously a pretty smart woman (double meaning intended, and I hope you can take that as a compliment)

Unfortunately there are plenty of women that find make up more important, even more unfortunate some guys like the sometimes intentionally dumbed down dolls. So there is a market for that shit and that makes it socially acceptable in some cases

@uyouthe THE STEREOTYPE IS SEXIST THEREFORE THE JOKE IS SEXIST

@uyouthe Im not sure Russia is a good example for treating people as equal, we all know how people with a sexual interest of the same gender are treated there...

@segfault0xff again, no. He had no problems talking to anyone, a good looking, tall, tanned man, a little too confident in how he thinks people perceive him.

I am not a social amoeba though and wouldn't unload heavy artillery off on a lad who's stressed enough to look at me. I still would tell him it's not cool though, probably in a more "chilled" manner. I lived with social anxiety before and I know it's no fun so please don't accuse me of not being empathetic to that.

But a cocky arsehole who rocks up to me telling me like I look like I need to have things explained to me. Hm. Yeah, no.

@uyouthe I'm actually from Eastern Europe homegrown to "well maybe you shouldn't have worn a short skirt" culture and I still think this is not OK :)

I'm male, 6.5 ft tall, I have a muscular build, I'm well groomed, and well dressed most of the time.

Nobody has ever reacted with surprise, or said to me, "You don't look like a developer".

The universal reaction is either, "Oh, what kind of software" or "I have a friend that works at {InsertNameOfWellknowndevelopmentHouse}"

Female developers, what reaction do you get?

It might be difficult to say something like "and you looked like a nice guy, guess we were both wrong" but maybe if you can dream it by heart it will tell him to fuck off and he is being rude.

@Alice its the opposite, when i was walking through Köln and Bonn I was surprised the girls are so pretty compared to Dutch girls.

@Alice Im pretty sure Ive seen your face on a photo once, you are pretty too

@wateringdisease How many female devs do you know that do that? At my company there is already 30 female devs none act like that.

@wateringdisease they dont work in the same place though.

Guys it's simple:
Compliment's are okay. Hey nice shoes! I like your new haircut! Your Desktop looks cool! Whatever.

If you assume someone can't do something (as good as you), because of their gender: not cool!
If you assume someone can't do something (as good as you), because of how they dress: not cool!
If you assume someone can't do something (as good as you), because of their religion: not cool!
If you assume someone can't do something (as good as you), because of origin: not cool!
Basically if you judge people's skills not based on their code: not fucking cool!

“you dont look like a dev” is also different from the “you look like some one that i would have to explain things to” line which is pretty lame.

I mean dev stereotype is quite strong for everybody.

@Wack This guy gets it.

@Wack Can I assume a 5 months old cant code as good as me?

I think the guys are scared I'll beat them up in the office. Dunno why?

@Codex404 After code review.

@Codex404 since I don't know if you can code or how well... I probably can't tell ;)

I've seen people with bachelor/masters degree write inefficient shit code but also really awesome one. Same goes for self taught. There are people with 20 years coding expirience just knowing their stack or how to do one thing and there are people with little expirience but still able to grasp a problem it's entirely. So in general I also wouldn't judge someones skills by age/education.

Remember people/comments sometimes lie, code doesn't.

@Wack so you lied about not making assumptions?

When almost every dev Ive worked with has complimented me (direct or indirect) than I assume Im a good programmer?

(with indirect compliment I mean fellow devs annoyed by me because their code is shit and I tell them during review process)

@Codex404 what do you mean by lied? I try to not be predjusticed, but then again I guess it's human nature to categorize people. However I try not to let that influence my view of others.

(haven't read everything but most of it)

to whoever: I am (bela)russian and I still think what the guy said is bs, so I do not agree on it being a cultural thing.

generally: I get it if it is supposed to be a joke, and I understand why people say don't be offended. Honestly though, how about we try to not make these kind of dumb jokes in the first place. Any misunderstanding can be then avoided. Stick to normal compliments.

Even if not considered offensive, it is kind of stupid and creepy.

If as a woman one doesn't wear makeup and wears comfy clothes: are you ok? are you sick? you are not feminine enough.

if you do put effort into how you look: omg, you are superficial, dumb, not smart, easy to get.

*sigh* happens all the time. And then "don't get offended it's just a joke!" well, we are tired of it. So please stahp.

@Wack you said not to trust people online because they lie :p

@Codex404 oh. Yeah. True :P

This kind of behaviour is an easy way to find out which people to avoid. Rip mansplaining

@fredisinbed that word needs to die a horrible death.

I feel you

I dont agree. Somehow, the self-deprecating nature of geek humor (all geeks look like trash) integer overflowed into self-aggrandizing (you dont look geek enough). Youre both wrong from a certain viewpoint.

@Alice Yep, I think most places are like this, which would mean the comment about her appearance was coming from a sexist place instead of the "dev's are ugly basement dwellers" troupe.

RE: the German thing... WTF (O_o)

Sorry but this is fucked. Even i don't see a way in which this is acceptable and I really thought long and hard 🤔.

I'm sorry that this was your experience. People can be so mean sometimes. *hugs*

These kind of events explain my inner conflict. Whenever i feel like putting in effort and doing makeup I instantly feel like I'm going to be judged for being a woman who only cares about her looks. Whenever i don't do that i feel like I look like a hobo and people would judge me for not putting in effort.
Both lead me to either be in a battle stance where I can fire back some comments, or into a I can't look people in the eye kind of mood.
Goddammit.
Annoying af.

@hasu do dress up and do your make up if you like it. Bet you look gorgeous!!

@aerfromenes aw thank you <3

Ugh. Probably wrote a post on /r/incels afterwards.

Despite all the discussion here, I agree he's a dick and should work on his manners.

Here's a tip: Keep your comments about my looks to yourself, positive or otherwise, because they're irrelevant. Period.

Women: Don't take it as a compliment, because it isn't one. It's about reinforcing your "knowledge" that your true value is in your looks.

Whether it’s a joke or not is irrelevant, I’ve met plenty of guys that do development but don’t fit the stereotypical “look”, but a lot of them feel excluded at times because of these assumptions.

It may be a passing comment, but when it comes to women, this has more insidious consequences, and these sorts of interactions are what put women off the community, and are what lead to the extreme pushes for diversity etc.

It’s easy as men to be oblivious to it, as we’re pretty much told we can be what we want by society, now imagine a woman who has internalised (for most of her life), that it’s important for girls to be pretty rather than smart, to have worked hard to get where she is, and then to have some male developer turn around and tell her she doesn’t look like she belongs there.

Whether that was the intention is irrelevant, it’s the way the optics will come across, and it’s something to avoid.

Just say “cool! Nice to meet you” next time.

Or better yet: “Awesome! Nice to meet you, we really could do with better female representation in our team / company / industry / all three”