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Tbh chatGPT is a welcome improvement which is sometimes helpful.
Issues are that the content of internet has been processed already, so we are unlikely to see significant improvements in a short future, and we are not paying the real price of AI right now.
Some people you are mentioning and speaking about AI all day are aware of this, but their business is hype. The same people were selling you metaverse and NFTs not so long ago. They basically hope for the hype to go so high that it will have a huge multiplication effect on their investment. They don’t care about truth. -
If it disenfranchises people who shouldn't be in the industry I am fine with it. If the devs aren't willing to stick through technology change that is on them.
I did find a very useful feature for AI. That is to have to produce unencumbered examples of API usage. I look for example projects of using some APIs I want to use. A working example. I found I can ask chatgpt to produce a version without extraneous API usage. A more barebones version of using the API. Only give us examples of how to use things. I always verify it is correct by reading the actual API.
At the end of the day its just another tool. If there are devs that are afraid of C++ and now are afraid of AI. I am not sure how to help someone like that. You either dive in or you stay a surface swimmer at the whims of the waves. -
@kiki Good code, and anything certifiably human made, will become more expensive.
For one, It will be seen as a luxury item because so few people will resist the temptation to offload the use of their brain to Google, Microsoft, and Facebook and will be hard to come across naturally.
And for two, when the gibberish generated by AI breaks and the person that sold it (they are NOT developers) can't fix it, it will be up to a human with actual knowledge and understanding to fix it. -
@jestdotty It solves the problem it's meant to solve while being maintainable, understandable, and efficient.
I can't believe that's a real question. -
@cuddlyogre the last part is buzzwords
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@jestdotty I have no idea what you are even trying to say.
Try to work with a codebase of any size that isn't understandable and maintainable.
Do it.
I dare you. -
@cuddlyogre but the AIs would be doing that, not people
you're making arguments for yourself, not for other people that would need your services -
You're shouting harder then ever while it's clearly advancing and actually writing 25% of Google source and Google us doing layoffs. AI does way more what I've ever expected in our era. It's your expectation that is just crazy. It can not do certain simple tasks, but it can do useful tasks. Making my method names consistent. Give global var names a prefix and it leaves local var names alone and will update the references to global vars in functions. That's fucking awesome. You don't need some advanced regex anymore. "Replace the I used as index everywhere with the word index and convert it to unsigned Int if it isn't". How cool is that? Like some people can't Google, some people can't gpt I guess. It can't solve a sudoku puzzle. SO WHAT. Oh no, can't count the r's in strawberry. Such a useless product. C'mon man, be real. Look at it's data analysis skills, I've watched a 4hrs video about it and realized that they profession prolly is really almost dead soon. We're just started
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And those hallucinations. I was surprised by the toilet seat invention comment here it dr lately. But I gever see it hallucinate. You don't use AI at all but just hate it and five years? DEAL. AI is now proding a human way of code in a way made for humans, imagine how much more efficiënter it could be
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@chatgpt isn't it very inefficient that Ai's use human programming languages? Is there being thought about some better alternative? Give example if so
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@cuddlyogre it's a very good question. Good code is barely needed anymore. Computers are so fast, they run everything what also made it possible to write everything in python. I love python, but you're doing basic stuff with 109%.The man with the bag of money cares only on smth working. That it happens with a four levels deep loop doesn't concern him mostly. Also the few extra servers that the code requires is cheaper than an employee and maybe spend too much time on quality for our code with such a short lifetime.
I'm all in for good code, but most people are living linters these days instead of coders. It's not about good code anymore for a long time.
I agree, why would anyone need good code? I want it because I'm a proud dev, but with reasons anyone will pay for. Your code better can be a good Peugeot than a Mercedes in terms of quality -
dev salaries is like 5k-10k a month and you're paying them to build maybe 1-2 websites a month. or you can ask an AI and it'll do a website even with you cajoling for a few hours and copy pasting stuff
question is if it'll be able to do more complex stuff, and not all AIs are made equal. few devs can even do complex stuff. I certainly can't anymore due to the brain damage, my attention is just shot so bad, that now I'm using AI for brain processing I used to be able to do but can't anymore
bah answered my own question. I hate that cuz I wanted ideas that weren't mine -
@retoor @jestdotty It is a tremendous problem that no one in the chain of AI generated code (or anything) understands anything about it.
From a purely practical standpoint, if you need to work on it, but no one knows how, you're in trouble. If the AI is unavailable due to nonpayment, account revocation, a filter that suddenly disallows that train of thought, ISP blocks access for some reason, and any number of reasons, what are you going to do?
Good code !== the fastest code possible, nor was that the suggestion. Good python is slow relative to good C, but it can still be understood and maintained and will be efficient relative to Python code.
As for the suggestion that properly naming variables and understanding scope being not worth your time, you are clearly in the wrong field. -
This attitude explains why everything is falling apart.
If something looks right to the money people, that's good enough. It doesn't matter that the thing is actually made of styrofoam.
Why put any effort into anything if you get paid? It's not like you'll face consequences for a terrible job because just showing up is the baseline for acceptable. And no one is any better than anyone else, so it's not like your shortcomings are even noticeable.
How will humanity maintain power plants or come up with novel ideas or build competing products when they are only allowed to think what they are allowed to think. Google isn't going to help you make a Google killer.
And when almost no one has a job, what do you think is going to happen then? That you'll spend your days on Risa wooing green alien women? -
Imagine the Great Depression, but globally. That is what will happen when there is no job, anywhere.
Then the world will end because AI told someone to jam a cheese sandwich into the console of a nuclear power plant.
So, go ahead. Stop using you brain. Let it atrophy. Only think things and make things sanctioned by Google, Microsoft, and Facebook.
Stop creating things.
Stop being human.
Just be the interface between a fancy random number generator and the world.
You presumably spend a lot of time at work, like most adults. Why would you just sign out for that time? Why not spend that time putting as much of yourself into your work? When you die, only what you did will remain. So why not put as much of yourself out there as possible?
If people don't matter to the process, then what point is there to having people? -
@cuddlyogre if AI replaces us all, then who’s gonna be buying all the stuff?
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@kiki When you have absolute power over everything and there's no one really left to tell you no, do you even need money?
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@cuddlyogre I wasn't projecting my own attitude. I take it both private and business very serious actually
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@retoor Well, there are people with the attitude that people are not necessary and they are doing all they can to make as many of them as disposable as possible. AI is only one of the tools they are using to do it.
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@cuddlyogre the vaccine tanked my brain so there's no brain left anymore. I used to enjoy it but now it tanked cuz I got poisoned by a friend (who is no longer my friend anymore)
and I had a job I put a lot of myself into and they used it against me to keep me slaving away for them so I'm not sure you should ever put yourself in your work. then it feels like they stole your child or arm when you leave, and that's after they sucked the life out of you for you all the concessions you were making to stay with this projects. then they also had the gall to say I "abandoned" them by leaving -
I don’t worry about devs being replaced entirely
But I can see areas of dev work being replaced by ai - especially within rapid prototyping and mvp experiments
For example: let’s say a web site company wants to experiment with launching some new mvp thing ”just to see if it gains traction” and someone suggests launchkng ten simple games like snake and sudoku.
You could pay for a dev team to do that (massive cost - plus it might never be done since it’s a large investment thrown away if you decide to scrap everything)
Or you can have one dev spend a day, generate 10 games using AI, spend a few hours testing, soft launch, and see if anyone plays em - and if not, scrap them
why I say FUCK AI -
-> So much stupidity with "It will replace devs". Any dev who has more than 2 brain cells has had their issues with ChatGPT or AI knows that AI is not sufficient nor good enough to get even basic tasks done.
-> "It will be good in 5 years" - well then, talk to me after 5 years. I'm not buying a product or an idea on a "promise". I judge the tech for what it is today, not on what it can be in 5 years.
-> "Just trust me bro" - I see influencers suck that robot dick, but no explanations are given. What they say sounds to me like it's parroted off of general mass media. Nothing new to add nor any insight.
-> AI has issues that nobody seems to talk about. Hallucinations being the biggest of them all. ChatGPT tells you something, and you're supposed to take it as fact? That's too dangerous for a normal person.
-> Junior software developers are scared even to this day that AI can replace them. If they can't think for themselves, it falls upon us (or at least, me) to drive them in the correct direction or give them real opinions on what it is.
rant