@PRein sure, I can agree on that. But in any language that support reference parameters or in out parameters you can simple define a function that swaps 2 values. That is not difficult, and even c++ has a function in the standard library named swap. So the whole argument is kinda ridiculous.

Meanwhile, how often do you actually swap variables? Seriously??
I do it in for example implementing quick sort, and it ends very fast there.

I have seen this multiple times on devRant now and every time it makes me. Cringe, because of the implementation of python it actually uses an extra nameless variable. It creates an tuple En destroys that tuple again. So yeah you don't have to define an extra variable, but it actually uses more memory and uses more operations. So it doesn't have to be beter than in any other language.

Actually I do think c/c++ should be replaced by another language. Maybe one that does not exist yet. C/C++ are really old and a lot of legacy issues are still in them which make them ambiguous and difficult to read. So I do think they should be replaced by something that is also directly compiled to cpu assembly.

But no I don't think that will happen anytime soon, it is already tried with multiple languages like D and it still didn't happen. Mostly because of legacy code. It is the same adequate cobol, in that language they still develop (poor developers). So no it won't happen.

I think you must update the update bar so the update bar can get updates from the update that your downloading

@theCalcaholic actually what you describe is a declarative language, not only html is one, but for example sql, vhdl and verilog are also a declarative language. And in my understanding, those are programming languages.

You want to finish your social life?????

The language is called Velato:

https://esolangs.org/wiki/Velato

There is actually a esoteric language where the language used is a music sheet. If you process the audio, retrieve the height and the duration of notes and then compiles that information then you can program with your piano.

That everything is in English is something from the last 30 years or so, before that a lot was in German, especially in the electronics.

But you need some language, and no one actually choose it, it was naturally born because the most programmers (in the early days at least) spoke English.

It is actually nice that in our field everyone speaks English, in a lot of fields you must learn multiple languages to understand everything.

Also the combination of letters is ambiguous if you use them, does sun mean s*u*n or the single variable sun

Don't talk about the code. My gf also isn't interested in code and stuff. But I do some projects, in the result she is interested. Now I'm building an iot sensor network with influx and grafana to measure the soil moisture of her plants. She enjoys the plants part and the results, I enjoy the coding and the results.

Most of the time your gf will be interested in the result, not the code. After a while she brings ideas to improve your projects and indirectly your code.

Making someone force to love something is impossible and probably breaks up your relationship with her.

And girls like men don't have general interests that every 'bitch' or 'cockholder' loves. Talk to her and you'll find out.

But talking directly about code is probably not possible. I know that problem :)

Probably because they can not ensure stability at those speeds for every chip they produce. And off course battery life and heat production. The last one especially because a li-ion battery is close by and that can explode when applied with heat.

So if you don't respond to this we all know what happened to your phone ;)

(but seriously, li-ion and heat is seriously a bad idea)

I think this comes from the research done. Research in AI is mostly done on university and other research groups. And python and c++ is a language that is used very much in that area. There are also a framework in Matlab for ai stuff.

Javascript is not a language that is developed by universities and such has a number of problems in logic and speed. (I'm not saying that python and c++ doesn't have problems but not in the area of speed(c++) and logic(python)) so in a lot of university project python is used for developing something fast and c++ is used for improving the python version.

The research world isn't that big, thus if someone develops a language or uses 1 then it get copied and spread very quickly in that world.

I think that is mostly the reason that python and c++ is used. If it is a correct choice is off course very debatable, but that is flame war material ;)

@Devman in gentoo you have different stages. The normal install of gentoo is a stage 3 install. The base system is already compiled for you. In Stage 2 and 1 there is more to compile. Which takes quite some time. Stage 1 is already for 10s of years not supported and stage 2 is unsupported for the last couple of years. In stage 3 you still have to compile the kernel. So you still have to compile more than Ubuntu.

@ninjatini stage 2 isn't supported, but off course can still be done ;)

This has noting to do with if a language is dynamicly typed or not.

This is also true in Java or c#.

In c# the + operator is defined for an string and an object, and calls the tostring method on the object to create the string. This can also be done in the earlier c# versions where dynamic didn't exist yet.

But about this example, this sounds very counter intuitive, but how many times do you have such an real life example. Most of the time I do something like this "the number is" + a, where a is an integer. Then this result is completely intuitive in my eyes.

I never understood why the dot is necessary. Most of the time the language simple add an operator while that is not necessary and not needed to understand the code.

Nope, only need a Turing machine, theoretical you can do everything possible on that thing

@stimulate btw, I'm sure that oop isn't the solution to everything, that is also the reason why things like aspact oriented programming or feature oriented programming are introduced. But they are not taking off yet for number of different reasons.

For speed, yes of course the idea of arrays of structs is definitely slower then struct of arrays. Then the number of caching ia definitely lower. (on the gpu that is even more so then on the cpu)

This is an issue of view and requirements. Is it necessary for the employee object to to store everything it does, or only how much workload it has. This is something how you use any modularisation technique. And this is something that needs training and experience to make it good enough in for your case.

@stimulate yeah, it is true what you say. That way your code doesn't have as much useless information in the cache. But this is actually what relational databases does, they just have simple arrays of data that can be joined with indexes.

It is faster, but I think that this is not an issue with an oop language. Because if you model the language it is possible to translate an oop language where you have these kind of issues to the kind you describe (in an automatic way).

You're was also talking about concepts that are joined together because they seems to be connected to each other. This is actually true for any paradigm where you do modularisation. An interface of a library is never as good as implementing a custom part yourself. In a library interface things are also joined together.

@stimulate if I understand you correctly, you mean that by encapsulate function together to make some kind of module, but isn't that the same as using oop(except for the inheritance part), but the data is managed differently.

Stil, programming is creating abstraction from the original problem. This is also the case with languages. Especially when dealing with DSLs. How the compiler/parser/transpiler uses that, that is their domain. So if you use an non oop approach, then there is stil some kind of abstraction. In case of oop there is even more abstraction. When more abstraction is introduced the expressifness is increased. Which increases the overview of the problem. And yes you don't have a complete picture, but that is exactly the point of introducing abstraction.

And oop concepts already exist in a lot of problems, look for example at business applications. A employee is a object.

So I disagree that you introduce new concepts, but only better describe the original problem

@stimulate btw, in some cases, like on the gpu, it is actually necessary to change the thinking in data oriented. So it is necessary in some cases

@stimulate you make good points. You say that oop is that you can think about it more easily, but the performance goes down. But if performance is your goal then sure, go develop in assembly, directly what the compiler can execute. I hope that you don't do that. But non oop languages, oop languages all abstract some information away from you, this can be more or less in certain ways. In oop this is actually more that for non oop language.

So if you are programming something very complex, what is the in lot of advanced programming applications, why do want to do that in a non oop way??

If it were simple then sure, but were talking about complex applications like 100KLOC. Yes, the compiler has to do more, even the cpu has to do more when working with oop, but I think it will outweigh the fact that the code is easier to understand and with that has less bugs in it and is developed faster(for 100kloc projects).

I say let the computer work for you, not the other way around.

Actually oop is still researched at university level, where things like model driven development use the basics of oop to create a lot of stuff. But inheritance should not be used too much, but I know that things like polymorphism can be extremely useful, and for polymorphism actually needs some kind of inheritance. (in a static typed language)

Machine learning can be useful for interpreting very complex data. Like the analog world, e.g. images and user input. But not everything is that complex, so it can be useful but it also shouldn't be overestimated. If there is an analytical way of analyzing, please use that, but especially the analog world is sometimes far too complex. Then it becomes interesting.

I like the algorithms, but there is also a lot of issues with it and to use those algorithms, you need more experience that actually read a couple of articles.

btw, we're talking about machine learning that is a sub part of AI. Real AI is not yet possible with the current state of technology.

@linuxxx yeah, I'm a dutchie (but I have never called myself dutchie)

@linuxxx Dutch devRant meeting???? I'm interested

Because he didn't have a nice chair, he was not relaxed and made the wrong choice. So actually it is your fault.

@runfrodorun Seriously you have won me over, that last argument. I have no words. It is that good.

@runfrodorun Yeah actually it was one of the libraries I actually enjoyed working with in C++. So I do encourage using that library, but it is a bit easier with .net using serialization(where reflection is used in a very structural way).