@whimsical why though? What's wrong with assigning to onclick?

I only disagree with your proposed solution; iptables is an interop standard and interop and UX design constraints don't mix well. If we wanted to give it good UX, a better language that can be "compiled" to iptables rules is absolutely the way to go. It should have a custom userspace emulator and debugger and possibly be "decompiled" from an existing iptables config for easier reverse engineering and conflict debugging.

@D-4got10-01 The reason why we're supposed to "always ask for help" is that the company has a really bad knowledge silo and code rot problem. Nothing has a well-defined contract and half the team wouldn't know what to do with it if it existed, so even uncommon codepaths that are taken once a month tend to become incorrect over time. As a result, the only way to determine how anything works is to work with specifically that subsystem for years and years until you learn the general shape of every single function by heart.

@BordedDev it isn't a definite gdpr violation because we're developing the software for about 100 in-house dau and 300 in-house mau, so nobody would gaf. And even if it somehow got flagged as a violation even though it's not especially sensitive data, arguably legitimate interest, and at a very small scale, they would just pay off the regulator from the same money they're too stingy to spend on less than a TB of disk space for individual databases for all active branches, because this is Hungary we're talking about.

same, it's a bit of a shame that prety much every Rust job seems to be in this field. I can't wait for robotics and other fields that harbor actual innovation to pick it up. In AI, everyone is trying to sell an idea, be the first to satisfy a use-case, with ready made tools, while contributing as little as possible.

@Lensflare Well, in an async context you don't ever need a generator because you can do the same thing with a parallel task and an unbuffered SPSC channel that prevents the sender from continuing until the current message has been received. That's what the snippet on the picture I linked does.

Generators or coroutines are a bit different from async in that they can be called from any function since their public interface can't express waiting for an external event. Rust's Future trait has this capability in the form of the Waker, but you are free to ignore or stub this feature as long as you ensure that you don't ever yield to another async function that uses it, so you can technically accept an async function and then only use it as a compiler-generated state machine.

The one thing python is good for is calling into high quality libraries that don't have bindings for better languages.

@BordedDev I mean me too, but that's because I tried it to see what all the ruckus was about and came away with a detailed list of complaints. I don't bitch about anything I can't reason against.

Can you believe that there are people with 5 years of experience who never used Python for anything?

On the other hand, we made a competency matrix at work where everyone was supposed to log what they were familiar with in a predetermined long list of languages and libraries and we got scored on it, which is a hilarious management-mandated dick measuring contest.

Anyway, I got like 10x as much as everyone else because I like fucking around with tools. My only low scored category was a big fat zero in AI tools.

Also, @blindXfish has a devrant-inspired bbs at https://my.devplace.net/ which is in early development so it's not very polished but image uploads happen to work so that's already a big step up from dR.

@retoor had a service but she's having server trouble.

for a while now. I've taken to using the same S3-compatible bucket I use for the private websites I maintain.

@Lensflare well yeah then that struct/class would be the state machine. The point of a generator is that the compiler takes care of converting your function into a state machine.

@Lensflare for example, a textbook use case is to call two generators of sorted elements and then merge-sort their output as it's received without retaining the already sorted head of the sequences.

@Lensflare oh you mean like that! I gave the wrong reasons then, I thought you meant to turn the generator body into a lambda that's repeatedly invoked to generate successive elements.

What you're proposing wouldn't work because the caller can store the generator, move it around in memory, return it, or dispose of it without continuing.

@Lensflare A generator can have multiple yield points, and yield to other generators, even recursively, so the value of local variables, the instruction pointer, and even the generator call stack all have to be stored in a big compiler-generated state machine.

Just a lambda isn't enough for this, but any version of async-await syntax sugar should be able to represent it with various tradeoffs. Rust's async support in particular is a very good fit with almost no performance downsides and a low cost to ergonomics.

Actually never mind that stuff about regulation, when Diesel first came into mass production at Audi, owners were advised to keep all luggage in the trunk so that they could escape quicker if it started smoking before it would explode, which it did, regularly. That wasn't an analog-digital problem, but I can't believe they were allowed in cities for years afterwards.

If it's good enough for the A320 it's good enough for consumer cars. Cars have been spontaneously combusting for a century. The reason old cars are so much more reliable is that all the ones that were gonna self-destruct had decades to do so.

If you want new cars to be more reliable, restore funding and power to your impotent theatrical regulation agencies. It's been working for the German automotive industry. Powerful enough though they are to influence foreign policy, they're still afraid of safety regulation.

By the way, you can hack futures to use them as a sync generator via a skeletal executor since the state machine and yielding mechanism is the same. The only minor problem is if you do that you're not allowed to await any future inside the generator besides the handle's "yield" operation since you probably wouldn't have a Waker, and there's no way to impose this restriction on usercode through the compiler. I don't think that's a showstoppoer but to each their own.

absolute bullshit who puts fucking spaces in a URL god damn it I can't believe the S3 protocol has been standardized.

https://eu2.contabostorage.com/b5fc...

I'm actually not sure whether this is cancellation safe, now thinking of it I'm pretty sure it yields once between generating an item and returning it, so if it got dropped during that time then one item would be lost. But cancellation safety is a bitch so I think the best approach is to only ever cancel futures that represent a unit of work with very well known cancellation safe boundaries, and assume that a general future isn't cancellation safe.

Do you need sync generators or can you do async?

I have a very simple async generator.

https://eu2.contabostorage.com/b5fc... 2025-10-13 092129.png

Luckily Rust is well enough supported in Zed ootb and that's pretty much all the ecosystem I need to base Orchid's DX upon.

@whimsical The only reason I use VSCode in the first place is the plugins, but I'll check out Zed soon-ish once the Orchid stdlib is a decent ways written and I can start (re)building the editor plugins. If by now Zed has added custom procedural tokenizers, I'll do Zed before VSCode which could not figure out this basic feature for 5 years and instead uses fucking Textmate grammars.

tbf if I have to look up who wrote a piece of code, it's probably not a good thing for them.

@BordedDev not for me :/ Is there a setting for this? Are there meaningful UX settings for the dev tools?

@BordedDev Firefox doesn't focus the command line either.

But! That's because the console is available in all tabs if you hit ESC. Since that's one keystroke away, I think the new UX is good. The problem is that our muscle memory is now void. The devtools should get a keybind config.

Relatedly, why the heck doesn't C-F focus the search box in the Chrome devtools? This is one of those few conventions that every tool on every platform agrees on.

There's also a matrix room at https://matrix.to//... but I haven't been there in a long time either because I dislike large chat rooms.

Then again, there has been an atmosphere of decline for over 3 years and we're still here, so I expect that we will be for another 3 at least if the server doesn't give out.