What do you think makes someone a senior software engineer? What qualities make them stand out from mid-level engineers?

Higher pay

@electrineer what's up with your profile 😮🤔

@electrineer higher pay, of course. But what would you expect from a person who got there deservedly?

@aadilp anything they can negotiate a higher pay with

@electrineer lol thanks for the non-answer

Juniors: someone who needs constant direction and assistant.

Mid: someone who can handle changes on their own, get the job done.

Senior: someone who can manage a project from inception to delivery and keep a team on track.

Lead: team lead / manager. The one that takes the fall when shit goes sideways and defends the team.

Principle: this one knows their shit and gets paid well for it!

@C0D4 Generally found Mid engineers also lead projects, ultimately it is just pay that differentiates them

@pandasama there's always fuzzy gray lines.

A mid wouldn't be expected to run the project though, doesn't mean they can't deliver it alone though.

the senior would be the one actually managing the project work, technical designs, running sprints and what not, not something a typical mid would be doing.

It seems like the definitions vary vastly from one company to another and even from one person to another in the same company.

@C0D4 @pandasama @Lensflare Now that we've established that mid and senior both can take a project from start to finish, there must be something in their approach that differentiates these two levels of engineers. What do you think that is?

@aadilp Experience I guess, which impacts time taken to scope out requirements, write out tech specs etc. A senior engineer would probably be able to mentor, lead and scope a project out

@C0D4 By your criteria I have never been a junior dev, and when I hired on I was mid. Then within about 1 month I was able to start and complete tasks and take ownership of systems. I never had any doubt that I could deliver a system. But by the time I hired on I had developed systems/programs on my own during school. I remember, and still feel like, you just "figure things out". This explains to me why my management said "you are unmentorable". It also explains why within a year or 2 of working I was labeled a "senior" engineer. They didn't even tell me, they just changed the label.

@Demolishun yeah tbh I hear it too much that seniors own systems more and mentor engineers, but I feel when I joined too had ownership from day one, only mentorship is done a bit later but that's for any new hire joining you mentor them, so I'm more confused about what really makes a senior beyond just YoE simply to have that number there

@Demolishun @pandasama
Ownership and accountability are 2 different things though.

Being a mid with experience is most people, being accountable for projects (start to finish) regardless of size, and mentoring / leading a team without the managerial bullshit would be the push into a senior position.

Really mid should be broken into "junior - mid" and "mid-senior" as there's mids with experience but not running teams, and there's mids still early in their career.

Take note: a lot of companies have different expectations but this is from my own experience I'm setting the bars at.

Also: it's 7am and this dev hasn't had his coffee yet 🤪

When you start to prefer spirits to beer for your nightly, you're a senior

@aadilp I was told that I was quite far away for being ready to move up. That was until I sent in my resignation letter. I was offered a promotion and £14k above what they paid the person who just left doing that role. I rejected the offer out of principle because that was the only reason I was getting the promotion and the pay rise wasnt a fair salary compared to everyone else.

I don't agree that mid and seniors do the same. Mid complicate too much and don't understand business needs. They see the tree not the forest. They may have some knowledge but don't have enough experience and therefore they don't know how to apply use that knowledge, causing confusion and many times over complicating things. Mid may be able to deliver a project but at a higher cost (time, resources, etc).