"Smart" home gym equipment: expensive hardware for some grand, proprietary software, and ongoing subscription fees in the $50/mo ballpark.

The SW is usually designed so that even shit that could have been local is instead stored remote as to make the subscription look more worthwhile. The large front-up cost serves not only as revenue, but also to anchor the vendor lock-in.

Open source hackers could potentially unchain the HW so that users would actually own what they purchased, but there is a catch: the HW is sold at a loss, and the subscription is the business model.

Freeing up the HW would render the subscription rather useless, and ramping up the HW sales prices to profitability would destroy any demand.

Basically, it's products that are technically feasible, but not economically viable. Which is why they are not the future of home gyms.

What would a smart gym even do?
You just need a power rack and a barbell.
Auto loading barbells?

@ars1 Shit like the Tonal (see tonal.com), basically a wall mounted screen with arms that have cables in them. It uses SW controlled electric motors to provide resistance training. The main idea is to save space, especially in city appartments.

@Fast-Nop I like the concept, it’s pretty cool. I’m wary of its free weight setup though, as it could be very inefficient if your body is not doing the full motion and support. That said, form is so important, maybe I’d be convinced after trying it. The size is great for apartments like you said.

Fuck subscriptions though.

@ars1 It's also the dependency. If they decide to jack up the subscription price, which they did this year (from $50 to $60/mo), then what? If shit breaks after their ridiculous two years and limited warranty, then what? If the company goes bankrupt, then what? If in five years, they decide to stop supporting the "legacy" devices (i.e. those currently sold), then what?

I know that my dumb dumbbells (haha!) with loadable plates will work even in decades, and they don't take up much space, either.

@Nanos You don't see why higher prices lead to decreased demand? That's basic economy.

The Tonal in question is already at $4.5k (plus tax!), and the company founder said that it would have to be $6k to just break even in production per unit, and $8-9k to make the company profitable.

At $9k, there is virtually no market left for such a product. They'd sell so few units that their non-unit related cost such as development, software, class recordings and whatnot would have to be divided by even fewer units, ramping up the necessary pricing to well over $10k.

But at that price point, customers won't accept plastic arms that wear and tear, and that start creaking. They'd expect equipment that is fit for commercial use, quite a step up.

@Nanos "How do we know that in advance ?"

Read what I wrote about customer expectations at that price point. The product is just not up to that. It's already a hard pill at its current price point.

Plus: who would even be the target customer? Rich people can also afford a proper fitness room, and people who live in small appartments aren't the ones shelling out north of ten grand for that, especially not with a limited two years warranty.

@Nanos The Alexa example is also funny: expecting users to order via voice would require handing over the payment authorisation to the system, which is a no-go.

Or authorising it e.g. via an app, which would render the whole system pointless because then you'd need a smartphone anyway, so why even having the extra hardware instead of an app in the first place.

Why sell or rent a product when you can do both

@electrineer Conversely, from the customer POV: you can either sell it to me, but then I expect it to be mine, or you can rent it to me, but then I won't pay several grand in front-up cost.

@Fast-Nop if only customers were that principled

The fuck is a "smart" gym?
What, does the leg machine also suck your dick or something? It's literally just heavy blocks you push/pull around, what is there to make smart of xD
Idk man, I don't want skynet on the face-crushing blocks that I'm lifting above my skull.

I had wanted to create a home exercise bike (or any cardio machine) interface device that people could retrofit onto their existing machines. I wanted to have an open source interface using common hardware people can get cheap. Then have software that can take input from this interface to play 3D games. It would nice if this interface could output joystick like data so any game could be used. Joystick data so it can be analog. But people could also make software that uses the speed data, resistance data, etc from the interface. The idea would be to keep the hardware separate from the software. This would make it more immune to patents that might exist.

Make the interface open source so anyone can use any hardware for that part. Keep the API/Interface standardized and open. Let the market create anything it wants to attach to this interface. Completely sidestep any existing proprietary bullshit in the market.

@SoldierOfCode Some device with electric motors providing resistance on the cables you pull, cable arms for different positions, SW that controls the motors and lets you select difficulties and programs, and an internet connection to hide most features behind a subscription wall.

"smart home gym equipment" to me falls in the category "products that are just batshit insane and should never, in any part of the multiverse, exist in the first place, not even purely as idea".

that being said, when you look at the people who actually _use_ "smart" equipment that shouldn't be smart and/or use "home gym"-equipment, well... price is irrelevant, they're accustomed to overpaying horribly anyway. just slap another zero at the and and watch the sheep eat it up.

@Nanos I wrote that, you just didn't read, as usual.

I remember something around 50k units sold, the company is operating at a loss already, fired 35% of its staff, has been sued by Foxconn, its actual manufacturer, for $5mio in unpaid bills, and the FED raising the interest rate to the highest level since 2001 means that the time for cheap borrowed money is over. Plus that the Corona gym lockdowns are over for good, as it seems.

Their financial situation makes spending several grands on their proprietary, locked-up stuff even more of a gamble.

@tosensei These things are too expensive for actual mass sales, but even making them more expensive and then going for the luxury market wouldn't work.

Because, you don't buy a Rolex to know the time of day, but to show off. However, these things are not only built for home usage, making it difficult to show off in the first place - they are also built to save space.

Problem: rich people who somehow want to show off with their private home gym can do so much better with a fully equipped actual gym. It's difficult to show off with a device that implies you can't afford the space for a real gym room, after all.

@Fast-Nop but the rich can show off with "how smart it is". and i guarantee: there's at least ONE too-rich-motherfucker who wants one in his caravan.

@tosensei Would be difficult because the wall mount needs to absord quite some force - a caravan would need a heavy interior stud system, given that its walls are thin and light.

But, even the dumb equipment has seen proprietary "innovations". Like rotary selectors in dumbbells, with plastic nibs inside ofc, and incompatible to anything else, i.e. expensive.

The cheap, durable, and compatible old school stuff with disc plates and spin locks is still there, but doesn't get any hype. Probably because it sells without hype.

@tosensei there's nothing inherently wrong about making everything smart home. The problems start when the smart features require a cloud connection and it's impossible to directly connect it to e.g. your own Home Assistant server.

@Nanos Still, it stands that this thing is unsuited as status symbol, no matter the price tag.

The problems on product level: over-engineered and yet under-produced, and needs to be wall-mounted. That's bad for appartment renters, it's not mobile, and the installation is not allowed as DIY, but with an external installation company, which also costs money. And yeah, ofc they produce in China due to cost and not because the Foxconn CEO has the largest biceps. :)

What they tried so far has been jacking up the price both for the purchase and for the subscription. Isn't going down well.

I think they are not going to make it.

@Nanos "What's to stop someone just buying it and doing the installation themselves ?"

You can't buy it without also buying that service in the first place. I guess warranty would also be a problem.

I mean, it's somewhat understandable because they don't want morons to just tack it on a drywall, missing the studs, and then have to deal with dumb and angry customers. It's the US, after all.

@Nanos Their warranty is non-transferable, so they just wouldn't care. That's on top of their lack of trust in their own product, as evidenced by only two years warranty duration, being ridiculously limited, and not even being applicable outside the US.