You what's been pissing me off this week. The press and social media coverage of this Google guy's gender memo.

Almost every outlet has him saying:

"Women are inferior coders because of their biology"

He ABSOLUTELY does not say this anywhere. He only states that basically less women are attracted to the industry. He doesn't comment at all on the quality of the Women who do go into tech.

It astonishes me the utter ignorance of the media and how they can just print these ignorant errors / lies.

I would wager that most if not all of them never even read his memo.

I am really fucked off by this social media keyboard warrior driven world we live in.

Apparently we value freedom of speech and freedom of expression above all else... UNLESS you say something that pisses off the social media justice warriors. In that case you will be publicly crucified and your life / career will be destroyed.

The annoying thing is in this particular case he didn't even say what they are saying he did.

Agreed. I read a good chunk of it but didn't see such blatant discrimination. Just a simple "this is the way it is right now, but placating the SJWs is bad"

@Finstew google it. Should be very easy to find.

@Finstew ok, I would have gone and found it but I'm out and about just now.

In this age of alternative facts, it doesn't matter if it's accurate. It just has to sound good. Acknowledging that there are more men than women in a field sounds bad, even if you take into account that maybe they don't want the job. So now there are a bunch of programs and scholarships as incentives to get women programming. Because #werespectWAHMEN. I don't think such programs are bad. I just think it's there to fix a problem that maybe isn't a problem. To me, it seems insulting to a woman's freedom of choice to try and cram it down her throat *just* to fix a 'glass ceiling'.

The guys final statement sums it up. He says in his memo that the correct way is to treat everyone as individuals as opposed to members of a race / gender.

I am too neurotic and interested in people, not things, to understand any of this.

@SSDD Yet in the memo he routinely does the opposite?

@Finstew I see you have a different opinion, i'd like to hear it :)

I'm so glad to see the devRant community has sensible, non-SJW people in it. The media and super-liberals have been warping everything for their own agendas to such an extreme degree, it's absurd.

The Google employee's memo did not do anything wrong, and he has the proper perspective on the situation. Attempting to make 'equality' in places where there would NOT willingly be equality is ridiculous and far-reaching beyond reason. There are less girls in tech because less girls are interested in tech, not because they are biased against!

I've had it to here with all this political correctness crap already... >_> For the love of God, can we just go back to the time when people were able to say and do what they wanted without being judged, ridiculed, or criticized by others?

I agree I read it and it does not say anything like what the media think it says. Plus this guy was just an engineer not HR not an exec. I no way think he speaks on the behalf of Google. It must have been a slow Newsday.

'Worker Sends Inappropiate Email'

@kenogo there's no money in it

@Partynextdoor Welcome to devRant. Proper ranting you're doing there. :P

Now let's continue our intelligent discussion. In what way did what I write suggest that I was upset about the guy who wrote the email? I am upset about how its actual content was warped for leftist purposes/agendas, to make this guy out to seem like a monster. To ruin this guy's life and career, to demonize him, for completely reasonable and fair point of views.

I find it funny and ironic that you think I'm trying to push a narrative, when that is precisely what it is I am ranting against, which is how the SJWs are blatantly trying to push their narrative on everyone else who does not conform to their views.

Here’s what pisses me off about his memo:
• “These two differences [women’s interest in people rather than things?]... explain why women relatively prefer jobs in social or artistic areas. More men may like coding because it requires systemizing... comparatively more women work on front end, which deals with both people and aesthetics.”
- When you grow up expecting more men to appreciate the systemic nature of programming, that is what you will see. The stereotype that women are more inclined to front end work is the reason so many female programmers are automatically relegated to the front end and CSS, whether that’s their interest/strength or not. Trust me— you do not want me writing your site’s front end. Contrary to these stereotypes, many actual women like me have zero eye for design, and absolutely no special inclination for “people and aesthetics”. This stereotype has entered my periphery uninvited more than once, and it’s because of ignorant assumptions like this one.

• “Extraversion expressed as gregariousness rather than assertiveness. Also, higher agreeableness.”
- This is a stereotype, and one I have been treated differently for breaking. I am an incredibly assertive coworker whose “agreeableness” does not factor into my decision making. Men sometimes appear to expect me to be the team member who fosters patient communication instead of critical assessment of our code’s shortcomings. You will not get that trait from me.

1/2

He then goes on to say that women tend to be more neurotic, emotionally driven, etc. Literally all of the female stereotypes that women are born having to fight against, for the sole reason that so many men genuinely don’t see why they’re harmful or wrong.

You can say “your anecdotal experience as a nontypical woman doesn’t mean this guy’s assessment is wrong,” but that’s the problem. He doesn’t understand these beliefs hurt actual women who want to join this field but are constantly discouraged from even trying.

2/2

@BrokeTheInteger the BBC got a top psychologist to go over his science and the professor said that if it were a university degree paper he would get an A-. Pretty much stating that the science is spot on.

I appreciate that it may be not what a subset of people (male and female) want to hear, but it is GENERALLY correct.

Women ARE generally more neurotic. It's like a totally known thing. Just like men are generally more aggressive.

The minute you start talking about individuals you're off topic. Generally, across countries and cultures, what he says is true and that's why GENERALLY, less women are in tech. I hope it changes I really do but for the way the world is right now, the guys observations and suggestions were bang on.

Also just to reiterate, he never said anything about the quality of work, only about the number of people who want to work in the sector.

@SSDD I’m sure that dude professor liked it. There is nothing scientific about driving forth stereotypes against women who want to enter a male-dominated field and are constantly met with roadblocks that men don’t even realize exist.

He’s not exploring new theories or ideas, he’s reiterating old ones that have never been proven— mostly because they wouldn’t be provable.

“He’s right” is an opinion you have, not scientifically driven in any way.

Women are viewed in a certain way, and many fit that stereotype, because of how women were placed in society by men in a time before any of us were born. As such women lived in the role we were given, only to slowly evolve out of it (this is still happening). Those of us who don't fit that role are "upstarts", "bitches", and "problems". That said, I do think the constant victimization that happens in all groups is also a problem because it is not always a real issue, and people tend to just want something to complain about.

Anyway, I need to get back to cooking and cleaning and just being pretty.

Edited for typos

@Partynextdoor you've just proven my point!

NOWHERE does this guy say that women are "less biologically suited" to work in tech.

YOU are the exact problem that I'm trying to describe here.

He says women are LESS INCLINED TO WANT TO WORK in tech.

NOT that they are not suited to work in tech and not in any way at all that women who do work in tech are any better or worse than men.

FUCKING. HELL!!!

@SSDD kodos. The author of the memo is not an extremist or sexist nor is he a racist. He is pretty moderate stating several times he is for diversity. His problem is with the way the diversity program at Google is being implemented. Quotas lowers the bar and which frankly is not only insulting to woman its a bad business move. You want the most qualified person on your team regardless of what they are. If a man preforms like crap he shouldn't be hired, if a woman preforms like crap she shouldn't be hired, if candidate X preforms better than candidate Y, X should be hired.

It's absolutely insane that if I say that woman's psyche is different from a man's psyche I am classified as a sexist.

@Jeremiahlukus Not only sexist, but also wrong!

https://linkedin.com/pulse/...

@kenogo I think it's sexist that you think all men are sexist.

@kenogo if you can't beat them join them.

I'm feeling bullied and harassed and discriminated against by your insinuation that I'm biased.

@Partynextdoor
How about a standford medicine article.

https://stanmed.stanford.edu/2017sp...

@SSDD Pulled directly from dudes memo:

"Differences in distributions of traits between men and women may in part explain why we don’t have 50% representation of women in tech and leadership."

And later:

"I’m simply stating that the distribution of preferences and abilities of men and women differ in part due to biological causes and that these differences may explain why we don’t see equal representation of women in tech and leadership."

Maybe the problem is people not taking to the time to read the things they're ready to get all up in arms about supporting?

@thedevdevil I can't figure out if you're trolling or not- IQ differences between blacks and whites??? I'm not buying that for a second. The only biological difference between blacks and whites is skin pigmentation levels.

@Partynextdoor again you've proved my point. Both of these quotes only speak to the number of women in the industry. Not their ability.

Thanks for providing quotes which highlight the point I'm trying to make.

@SSDD Fam, "differences between preferences and ABILITIES" is literally in the second quote. Quit reaching

@Partynextdoor sorry I am definitely not trying to be a dick. Clearly there is an interpretation issue.

Yes he mentions the word ability but look at the context.

All he states is that the distribution of preferences and abilities are different. Which is true. He doesn't say that one gender or the other has more or less ability. And he definitely DEFINITELY doesn't say that women are worse at coding because of their biology, which is what is being propagated in the press and is what the main point of this rant is about.

@thedevdevil you know what I love about devrant... we can debate pretty serious and controversial stuff and it remains civil.

I'll go research that myself mate. Cheers.

Maybe we're less attracted not because we don't like tech but because we don't like working with guys who believe some of the falsehoods in his document.

@jediping so you're kinda proving his point. Again...

Must guys wouldn't be put off by that. They'd see it as a challenge and be like "fuck you, I'm doing it".

You've just illustrated EXACTLY what this guy was talking about.

@SSDD Ya us guys are so noble and intelligent, when faced with a hostile workplace we all just use our manly mental strength to power through and show all the other mans how strong and cool we actually are.

@SSDD Bullshit. Given that argument, there should be no position ever vacant because of a lack of qualified candidates. Recruiters would not be fighting for the same people and positions. But tech is toxic for both. Women stay away on greater numbers because we already have to deal with sexual harassment, lower wages, the perception that we're bitches if we're assertive, etc ec. Add a toxic culture on top of that, and THAT is why women stay away in droves, and why men largely avoid it unless they feel a strong affinity for it already.

mainstream media sucks

Google was put into a sticky situation here, a zero-sum game. No matter their move, they would lose. The guy got fired because he is negatively affecting the image of the company in the public's eye, even if it is unfortunately due to misguided interpretations of what he actually wrote. If they didn't fire him, they'd have backlash from all the same sources currently pinning them, further damaging the company. No matter what they do, they'd lose.

The liberal media is so aggressive in their views that they can hurt Google's rep, even if what they are spewing is false. The media can perpetrate whatever they want about anything. If you tell people enough times that "this guy's a sexist," people will believe it...

@SSDD By the way, I read through this riveting thread and I must say that I'm behind you entirely. Every response of yours is spot-on correct, IMO. Just so you know that you're not alone in thinking so rationally ;)

I too love how we can hold an intelligent, actually-multi-sided conversation here and still remain civil throughout, not resorting to violent nomenclature or shutting people out. Open minds allow for growth in ideas and perceptions; go devRant community! :D

@jediping Please don't draw the lower wages card. It's proven multiple times that it's because men are better at negotiating when hired and better to ask for a raise. Even in women dominated fields, they're having a harder time getting a raise than men IN GENERAL. I don't want to sound like a dick, but I really think everyone (women AND men) should stop taking everything so personally. The guy who wrote that memo might have been wrong (I don't give a flying rat's ass if he is), the fact is, that there are differences in one way or another, and I've even heard female leaders and business owners support my first statement.
Ps. please don't call me sexist. I like women. In fact I adore and envy them in a lot of ways.

Ben Shapiro has some really great analysis about the whole Google Memo debacle. As a conservative commentator who can't stand both the Alt-left and the Alt-right, he provides a perspective most SJW inclined people will never hear. He just interviewed Damore in today's podcast release on iTunes.

If this thread is any representation of devRant's user base, yikes!

@thedevdevil that's not all he has said on this. So you're only getting a sliver of what he's been saying over the past few days. Subscribe to his podcast and listen from when the story broke onward. It's more balanced than you're getting here. I'm not sure what you're referencing as far as evolution. Unless that's just a broad statement based on an assumption of what he "must" believe given his ideological stances or religious background. Also the memo pointed out bio diffs but didn't at all simplify it to "women are no good at tech". It's a generalization that people hang onto for comfort in confirmation bias, not because that's what it actually said.

@thedevdevil I just find it interesting that there are women (my wife and daughters included among many others I know, and, I'm sure, millions of others I don't know) who are on board with equality but who also readily admit that they believe in biological differences in men and women influencing the career choices they each make. But it's a double standard that, if these women had been working at Google and had come out and said as much, it wouldn't have been as big of a deal as a man saying it.

It shouldn't matter whether you or I or anyone disagrees with a person's uninformed opinion or well-reasoned research. It shouldn't matter whether a person believes in random chance evolution, intelligent design, or young earth creationism. Diversity of thought either matters, or it doesn't. But let's not pretend that Google management was completely honest with itself in saying they care about diversity and tolerance if thought crimes are fireable offenses.