Hoe about this.. Instead of a 'literal' game..

My co-developer suggested we make a minimal Linux OS (based off of Debian) and set it up to simulate fake hacking.

How does that sound?

It would still be a game, but would be so much cooler. >:3

The OS would be SOOPER light. And wpuld come with a custom set of 'hacking' tools. These 'tools' could also be installed on any other Linux os.

This is all theoretical, but we would love to hear your opinions.

Please ignore bad spelling.. Can't have caffeine with my new meds. X.x

I would play it 😉

@linux You seem like someone who would have an opinion on this. ^~^

And it would be nice if it was based on real techniques that hackers actually use. 😇

@sovietspy2
We were discussing using real tools (like Hydra) to launch attacks against fake targets, but realistically I want more of a toy box then a box of unloaded guns..

I'd make a kind of 'mock' hacking tools if I were going to do it this was, not real ones, and wouldn't base it off debian unless I absolutely had too. Keep in mind that you'll have to emulate a server if you want to actually connect to the internet, and of course, much of the stuff you were talking about in your last rant would be much harder to achieve this way. Just keep in mind that if you think C# was hard, this way isn't for you. I'd at least make an attempt with Java, it's got everything you need, and you could tell that clearly ever other language has its downsides, but Java looks to have the least.

@calmyourtities
This is all theoretical. We're just looking at all of our options. :3

And the idea here was to just make mock tools in python that play with eachother. This would be the main project.

The rest would just be a stripped down OS. The only customazation we would do to it really is reskin/theme it. I've done something like this before while I was in college. It'll be hard(yes, alot harder than programming regularly), but it'll be fun as hell! (which is what C would hack lacked) ^~^

@calmyourtities
Also, my co-dev sujjested Debian. I haven't touched Linux in a few years. When I was at it, Ubuntu was the big dog. Anyhow, if we go through with this will will pick a suitable OS that is not based on personal bias.

@Cyanite tbh if I were gonna go down that road, I'd choose Debian too, but I don't think I completely understand what you want to do, would you make an ISO and a VDI as the game and run it on a VM?

@calmyourtities
ISO on a VM? Yes. Unless we can manage a pre-built EMU. (doubt that though)

VDI?

@Cyanite a Virtual Disk Image, so it's a like an emulated hard drive - it's the file that holds all the files in the VM. If I create a VM with a VDI and ISO, and put some files on it, then someone else makes another VM with the same ISO and VDI that I had, all the files will be the same, because the VDI's are the same.

@calmyourtities
Imagine a VERY light OS (like Puppydog, but prettier). You install it in a VM. And you use the pre-installed 'hacking' tools to complete missions and jobs. These same 'hacking tools' could be installed on another Linux OS if you'd prefer that instead.

@calmyourtities
Yes, that is correct.

@Cyanite this is going to be a real challenge, I really do think you should try Java first.

@calmyourtities
I understand the challenge.

However, this would be alot more fun. :3

And I'm going to have help!

And like I said, while it was years back, I do have experience here.

Also, my co-dev basically said he would quit if i went with Java. :3

Again, I haven't decided yet. Though, I do really like this idea. And I appriciate your concern. ^~^

If you want a lightweight linux distro, check out Alpine Linux

Sounds pretty cool! But also like a lot of work.

It will be something like `SHENZHEN I/O` but instead of focusing on hardware and kind off "assembly", on other hacking tecniques, right? Plus it will be an actual OS instead of "only" an application.

@Cyanite haha ok. Good luck!

@pascalwacker
It would be a "useable" system, yes. But it would be intended more as a toy box and not a daily os.

@calmyourtities

Thanks!..I'm going to need it..

@pascalwacker
The hacking will be fake.. And probably wont use real techniques. You know.. Legal liabilities.. And other nonsense. It would be more to make noobs feel like skilled hackers. ;3

@calmyourtities JAVA SUX... Dont ask why... Just remember the true truth

@linuxer4fun is it better then C#?

@calmyourtities it is as much the worst as c#

@linuxer4fun so you're saying Java and C# are terrible? I have to disagree with that…

@calmyourtities once you are lowlevelih, youre stuck to that... I coded assemble myself, i hate highlevel

@linuxer4fun what about Python? I think one of the main reasons for Java was cross compatibility, I like it

@calmyourtities cros compatibility??! You see the prize you pay? Slower exec, illogical abstractions everywhere... Python is the same

@linuxer4fun
Don't be downing Python.

@linuxer4fun yeah, I'd never make a performance-heavy application in Java, but otherwise, it's a good go-to language.

@linuxer4fun what the fuck are you talking about

@calmyourtities im doing some heavy calculations with java, yes it was slow in like java6 but that was a long time ago

But are you sure people will get a VM, install the OS and run it. Sounds like too much work for a normal gamer. Moreover if you are ignoring Java because of performance, good luck getting performance in a VM

@rsrj
I'm 'Ignoring Java' because while I think it's a good option, everyone else is against it. (Including my co-dev) Also, the OS wont be required. You will be able to install the packages on any linux (and maybe windows/mac) OS. The Distro will be for immersion.

@Cyanite I think this is a great way to go! If your game is actually a VM, you could easily distribute it as an ISO through Vagrant, but keep in mind that every player would then first need to install VirtualBox (or another such software) to run your Game. So instead...

The more ambitious (and more professional) solution would be to set up your own server with a closed network full of thousands of virtual machines. Every player of your game would then connect to your server as a user on one of your server's own virtual machines.

This way, it could easily be played through a web browser (since all virtualization and processing would be done on your end). The gamers could "use the VM" through a JavaScript/HTML based GUI, but all their actions would just send commands as an user on one of your server's own virtual machines. Now your server interface with the VMs could be in any language (Python) without any worry about graphics.

Check attached https://XKCD.com/350 for inspiration.

@rsrj Java is a VM and

@Cyanite maybe you're co-dev doesn't want it, but this way will probably be much more then double work anyway, and anyone who is too close-minded to chose a new language doesn't know the first thing about hacking. Hacking is a creative and open minded art, keep that in mind.

@calmyourtities
Well idk the first thing about hacking(Else I would of been a hacker.. ;3) And my co-dev just doesn't like Java.

@thejohnhoffer
That assumes I have more than $13 to my name (which I do not)

Again, the OS will NOT BE REQUIRED it'll just be a Light/Custom/reskinned Debian for Immersion. If we go this route then I have a good Idea what needs to be done, and how to accomplish it.

The main thing thats going to kick my ass is multiplayer. Not sure how I want to handle that. (Of course, I still want to do NPC hacking. But now that realism is more in my focus, multiplayer has the spotlight)

@thejohnhoffer
Also.. For some reason.. Creating a new Linux OS sounded much simpler than that..

@Cyanite the game is meant to make money, right? Just start with 10 VMs on your personal machine, and set up an IPV6 server from your own machine to test it from any number of clients.

Once the game works for 100 players on 10 VMs from your own personal IPV6 machine, you should be able to get funding to rent or buy a dedicated server with an IPV4 address from which to run your first release of the game for a few thousand people.

Setting up a dozen VMs in a VirtualBox Host-only network is really easy and can be done via command line or GUI. Then the server for your game just needs to translate a gamer's browser activity to any number of commands to the virtual machines via SSH.

@Cyanite the solution I've given would be by far the easiest for me to implement personally.

Also, since gamers would use your closed-network VMs via the protection of your server, you could actually freely inject real malware to destroy the VMs with no risk to the users.

The absolute easiest bit of this would be just to give the gamers a command-line shell whose input and output is basically fed directly to and from one of the Virtual Machines.

@thejohnhoffer

Not really.

Free & Open Source. That was my promise.

Profit is donation only. I might end up using ads, but to stay true to my promise; Players will be able to opt-out for free.

@Cyanite I'm not so sure how a GUI would be more suitable for a hacking simulator than a simple terminal, but my approach would allow you to add creative and visually interesting elements to the browser GUI without actually needing to worry about making a custom theme for a Linux distribution. You can then add your own in-game "phone call" and "news app" and other "story-telling" elements primarily to the GUI with very little activity needed on the VM for those features.

@thejohnhoffer
Also should point out that my system is rarely online.

Where is @linux input on this?

@mundo03
Never did comment. 3:

@Cyanite you mean your personal machine is rarely online? Like you don't have stable wifi access from which to run a test server?

Since it's just for testing, that sort of instability wouldn't be a problem at first. Also... I've just learned you don't need a static IPV4 to run a server...

https://howtogeek.com/66438/...

@thejohnhoffer
I have to connect to the internet via Phone Tether with a data limit. I can't afford to stay online. Truth be told i'm poor xD

@Cyanite if you plan on multiplayer, you'll need to end up paying for some centralized hosting no matter how the processing of your game is distributed. If multiplayer is not the priority, I concede that my solution is not the best. Food for thought.

@Cyanite ah, you have a data limit...

@thejohnhoffer
10Gb/mo at that.. Sometimes 5GB

@thejohnhoffer
My priority is not Multiplayer.

@Cyanite well, okay to the multiplayer issue. Your biggest concern IMHO will still be how to bundle the game. If you package it all inside a single VM, your site for the game should give instructions on how to get the VM up and running (I assume using VirtualBox)

@thejohnhoffer
We will. And yes, most likely Virtualbox

@Cyanite and then give some thought as to how you'll be simulating a network of NPC on their own computers from within the single VM that is your game...

@thejohnhoffer
Let me remind you.. The OS is only for Immersion. The 'game' will be a set of packages that you can install on any Linux (and maybe windows/mac) OS.

@Cyanite
I thinking, Alpine Linux in a docker container or something. Super light

@Cyanite I really like the idea, congratulate your co-dev and yourself for me please.

Since I saw you were thinking on open source and free I have some suggestions:

1. Those are a lot of votes I know, but you may find use in a Collab here in devrant, and with 2000+ you have one free

2. I'm not a python dev myself but I do like the idea of starting with it, on my thoughts java it just ain't right for that kind of game

3. Maybe use something like extensions for remuneration, additional languages (perl, bash, etc).

Btw I'm glad you have found here in devrant a community of your liking.

@BlueNutterfly are you somehow involved in this?

@jpichardo huh?

Hackmud. Might be good inspiration. (If this whole thing becomes a thing that people can help with, tell us in a rant or something)

@jpichardo
Why would they be? :o

@jpichardo
The reason Java keeps coming up, is because I was going to make a fake OS type thing that was stand-alone that you just played full screen. Java woild have deen perfect for this. And if I don't go the Linux route, that's my alternative. Just a bunch of code that would be 'faking it' like my current Python repo on my Github (This whole thing started because I discovered that Python wasn't powerful enough

@Dittoslash
Probably will! :3

@jpichardo
I get a free Colab at ++2k?
Also, i've only been a member for going on 16 days. :3 (shameless braging)

@jpichardo
I'd like to make apps programmable through lua - but if I go this route then idk whats going to happen with that.

Truth be told, I had figured out a plan for creating a mock-os (a GUI that looked like an OS) and had a full process laid out. I knew everything I had to do.

If i do this.. I'll have to make a new game plan, and figure out what I want to do. What I actually can do. (unlike normal Programing, I will have hard limits that I can not pass) My end goals. And if I should STILL learn a new programming language (see previous rant) anyways.

This will be a HUGE undertaking, but it's also never been done before.. Even if I fail, I could inspire others to do the same and open the doors for more great hacking games. :3

Something like this would be next-level (you know.. Without actually breaking out of the 'game' and into the 'training' gnere)

@Cyanite cool, your idea sounds great.

@jpichardo
I try. :3
I would of loved a game like this when I was younger. And If I succeed, I'm sure it will be epic.
I intend to have the game both SP and MP, to acomidate multiple playstyles. With randomly generayed NPCs and systems that you need to attack.

@Cyanite well that will requiere a lot of work, and btw who is your ISP or mobile data provider, 10Gb/mo sound good

@jpichardo
StraightTalk (The Tether is *technically* illegal - Using PbaNET)

@jpichardo Wait... What?

@infernaze cpp

@BlueNutterfly
Do you have a thing for Linix or hacking games or something?

@thejohnhoffer
Do you have a twitter? I'd like to discuss your recommendation more over. ^~^

@linuxbrother11 Welcome to devrant dude

@BlueNutterfly Hahaha sorry, a wild guess ...

@Cyanite How do I put it... I just am interested in learning things about both. I'm not a Linux user, but with the shit Microsoft pulls, I'm convinced I need to switch. Problem? I don't know how well Linux supports games. And I really, really love games. Your idea seems very interesting to me.

@BlueNutterfly
Most games wont run on Linux.