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@Bittersweet you might be interested.
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On you being a "hypocrite": Shut up dude.
In any company you're just a cog in the machine -- But sometimes you can strategically apply resistance against bad decisions, or steer teams in the direction of better ones.
No one can save the world by themselves.
And who has more influence on -- for example -- an oil company: The activist who boycotts them, or the activist who buys voting shares and applies pressure during shareholder meetings?
I hope you get into Booking.com.
Even if you get into Facebook... congrats!
That's an amazing entry on your resume.
Sit it out for a year or two, vent your frustrations about the corporate environment on devRant, and put your heel onto their nose to climb up to something even better. -
@-red I feel the vibe that I'll get the offer from both and then my struggle to make a decision would still exist. But again that's just a feeling as of now.
Few parameters I am considering:
1. Future proofing myself (resume brand + skills - Facebook leads)
2. CoL & Taxation (London vs. Amsterdam - Booking leads)
3. Company culture and work (Ambiguity)
4. Domain/area of interest (Music/Art/Travel - Booking leads)
5. Location (want to spend some time traveling UK before I move to EU - Facebook leads)
6. Money (I check Glassdoor and Booking is offering nearly same as Facebook)
7. Ethics and values (undisputedly Booking leads)
Do you think anything else that I could consider? -
@bittersweet thanks bro for the support, truly makes one feel better when friends back you up.
I am positive on Booking.com more because it seemed that Facebook guy had an attitude where he wanted to reject me. Lol
Yes, surely a great resume entry. Future proofing myself. And indeed, a year is a long enough to find a better place because I'd just use them to get myself in. Once there, London has ton of better companies for whom I can work for. Habing visa already, it'd be easier for me to switch within London.
Fingers crossed. And yes, can't destroy or save the world alone.
Also, in talks with a super small, angel funded start-up from Berlin. Super nice people..
Almost into their final round which is on Monday. -
@Floydimus The British are traitorous ugly inbred bastards, while the Dutch are sly rude soulless bastards. Both have terrible cuisine and plenty of rain.
Have fun picking your host country π -
@bittersweet where can I get PR and citizenship the fastest? π
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@Floydimus
Only this: since you mention moving between EU/UK, it would help to know in which direction the move is more easily accomplished later on. If you’re not going to be in the same company, you’d effectively be re-interviewing and the VISAs are completely different. And also consider the exit clauses of course. -
@bittersweet also, British women are hot though π
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@Floydimus PR will take 5 years in both the UK and the Netherlands. (With limits on how long you can spend outside.)
Add a year or year and a half after that for the citizenship.
Also for the Dutch one, there is a Dutch language test of course.
By exit clause, I meant the company will usually have some duration that you need to stay with them. If you leave early, some companies have a clawback policy.
You can treat the UK and EU as completely separate for all immigration purposes. I mean it’s no different from UK-US or EU-US unless you are a citizen of one these places.
I’d recommend dwelling on the immigration site of both these places for a while. They’re well written. (I found so atleast.) -
@Floydimus I’ve minimised my online presence and presence on any sort of networking apps or sites. Still continuing to do so. One of these days, this will be gone too. I’ve become paranoid.
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@-red makes sense. Got a friend who recently got married and moved to London. She said she'll support me with all info that I might need.
Lol I can totally relate to being paranoid and minimising social presence. Lately I have grown mine a lot again after my narc harassment. Need to ramp down to dR only once job hunt settles. -
@bittersweet lmao is it that difficult?
Also, how did you take the exam? Like just casually or via the immigration department? -
Let's be real and stop this ultra left wing BS. A jobs a job. Of course people want to work at a prestigious company as it's good for their career. No you are not doing anything bad by aiming for that.
If you get the job just don't club baby seals and don't download people's private Facebook pictures and you're good. -
@Floydimus Yeah kind of casually.
I think the Dutch exam got a lot less academic though, there used to be a bunch of stuff about "what was the name the city governor in the 18th century who fucked a Spanish duke in the butt in exchange for a ship full of silver coins" or something like that.
Now it's mostly an interrogation against Syrians to check whether they intend to use children and puppies for terrorist attacks. -
@bittersweet @Floydimus The British test has still got that stuff. History and politics and geography of the country and all.
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@Crost
A desire for your career to align with your moral values has nothing to do with being ultra leftwing.
Hating Amazon, or Facebook or even Booking isn't just a leftwing thing either... I think those are all pretty universally hated.
But I agree on baby seals. Clubbing them would be very inefficient, I think I'd program autonomous snowmobiles with fish traps, and then collect and gas them with carbon dioxide at a central location. Less risk of ruining the pretty fur. -
@electrineer Truth. Roundabouts, dedicated bike paths, clear signs and ultra-well-maintained roads, sensible urban and suburban city planning, everything reachable by multiple modes of transport.
While I love the charm and history of southern Europe, I feel like we, the Dutch, have nailed civil engineering pretty well.
Now if only we could put a dome over the country against THIS FUCKING RAIN π‘βοΈ -
@Floydimus
Oh... Just complain about the weather. That's the secret code. Passed the exam, instant Dutch citizenship! -
@bittersweet well, I wouldn't expect the weather in London to be any better.
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@electrineer Yeah but they deserve it, those imperialist pigs.
What have we Dutchies done to deserve rain, except for inventing microscopes, building ships, trading spices and slaves... oh... right.
Grrrr *unfolds umbrella* -
@Crost thanks dude. But lol, what's seal clubbing thing that I am unaware of?
@bittersweet damn! Never thought exam could be about history and politics too.
@prodigy214
1. You are a desi? Damn didn't know that.
2. Kaha se badi company. Iss third world country se lagta hai. Visa issues ke vajah se they feel grand. Bahar dekho, log casually ye sab companies me kaam karte hai jaise yaha log TCS and Infosys me switch maarte hai.
3. Interview schedule ho jana chahiye bas, baki clear kar hi logi tum bhi koi bhi company ka. It's all about practice.
@electrineer oh yes. Dutch cities are well planned for sure. Also, they are small which makes the accessible.
@bittersweet lololol complaining seems to be a common thing between Brits and Dutch.
Why are Brits hated so much though? I'd not feel first generation complex while in Britain because they have fucked our country so much that my immigration would be feel like 'I am here to take the Kohinoor back bitch'.
@vane no clue bro. -
@vane it sure was five years ago. Talked to a guy from an outsource company who worked with it at that time.
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@NickyBones Thanks dude. Those words mean a lot to me :)
Well.... I am born and raised in a coastal city. I start shivering when the temperature drops below 25 degree Celsius. lol
Would love Mediterranean for the climate and sea fronts. Maybe that spot could work out as a retirement plan. Haha!
I am all in to explore new cultures, learn them, and mingle with locals like one of their owns. Having spent almost three decades in one place, I feel the next three can be full of adventures, learning, and fun.
Fingers crossed :) -
Good luck, hope you get offers.
One thing to consider is that (I think) a work permit and residency in the EU is only for a particular country, so with booking you will need to be living and working in the Netherlands for 6 and a half years. The free movement thing is only for EU citizens. As a pr in the Netherlands, you will be only able to travel (legally) to other EU countries for 90 days at a time and won't be able to work anywhere outside the Netherlands.
So the next 6 years or so you need to be thinking am I happy to live in this country.
I think this is correct, reading various questions here, but I could be totally wrong.
https://expatriates.stackexchange.com/... -
@nibor
You can free move without needing a Permanent Resident permit or citizenship (normal work restricted time limited residence permit will do just fine).
But you are restricted to work only in the country for which you have the work permit. So you can travel elsewhere but not legally work there.
So if you want to work in another EU country, you’ll need to essentially get the work permit of that country. -
@nibor Thank bro :)
Hopefully, I close either one of them sooner than later.
I think with respect to free movement, with work visa/resident permit, I could be able to live and work in the UK/Netherlands (depending upon where I end up).
But could travel freely as a tourist/traveller within the EU zone AFAIK. Maybe live in different countries for sometime as well like a week or so.
And with respect to migration, well yes, if I get a job in Germany or France, will have to get another work visa/resident permit for those respective countries. -
@thirdworld not really. I am not going in for money.
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@electrineer ugh USA complex reared its head…
Update on my Facebook and Booking.com interviews. I had them back to back today.
Even before I start, I accept and admit that I am a hypocrite. I hate Amazon yet order stuff from there. I hate Microsoft yet use their products. I hate Facebook yet went ahead to interview with them.
I fucking hate myself for compromising my ethics, values, and integrity. I had promised myself that even if I work for any major shit company, I'd never go with Facebook. Here I am after many years. Not an excuse, but I am doing it because I see it as an entry point into the UK. That's all.
Community's hate towards me is justified and I'd accept the discrimination from this community because this place is my digital home and you all are my family. Infact first thing I told mom was, dR boys are gonna disown me when they get to know about this.
Anyway, coming to the update part.
I had applied leave at work from last Friday. 4 days of leave earned me 10 days off (including weekends and 2 days of Diwali company holiday).
Last Thursday I got to know that Facebook has scheduled their interview today (Friday). I spent insane amount of time preparing. Approximately 8 hours everyday including weekend. I added nearly 40+ hours preparing for it in last 7 days, because I had to get in. Failure isn't an option now.
I sacrifice my family time, preparing for the interview.
I sacrifice Diwali break, sitting in front of the screen and studying.
I sacrifice my only vacation of 2021, doing mock interviews as late as 11.30 PM.
I sacrifice my free time and enjoyment, stressing over what could happen.
I was prepared like perfect for screening stage.
Interview 1: this guy comes and ask 'what is the best compliment you have got as a PM?' and 'Why do you want to quit the current company?'
He wasn't supposed to ask those as per Facebook's policy and interview stage.
Then he gave me a shit problem to solve and rejected my approach and wanted it his was. I tried to follow him and made sure I was able to convince with the reasoning but he kept pushing me back. He kept putting me down. Did not listen to me or what I had to convey or what was expected as an answer. He had certain output in his mind and wanted me to come up with it as an answer.
For the uninitiated: Facebook gives ton of preparation material and tells upfront the kind of questions they'll ask they just focus on few things. Moreover, in Product interviews, there isn't right or wrong answer.
Anyway, this guy started making funny expressions which put my morale down and I stood my ground with losing my cool. I managed to get all my answers right and the key points the look into a candidate. It went decent. Yet the interviewers attitude was something I did not like.
Interview 2: the lady was really kind and warm. Very accommodating and easy person to deal with. It went amazingly well.
I have two observations I want to share with you all.
1. I hate what Facebook does. Lizardberg is awful human being. But I absolutely liked HOW they are doing things, at least from an interview stand point. They even had mock sessions by their PMs and upfront told how to prepare and how to answer.
2. While it seems to be a 5 star experience, I found them to function mechanically. No small talk, no human connection (ironic to their mission), no conversational flow of the interview (again something that they kept saying a zillion times in all their material). They came, formally introduced themselves, and had a checklist kind of attitude, and left.
I now await for the feedback.
In the next hour, I had Booking.com first round.
Amazing people. Warm friendly experience. Treated me as a human. Heard me. Made me feel part of the conversation rather than someone just being judged.
It went 1000x better than Facebook.
I await the feedback from them as well.
I don't know what's gonna happen but one thing for sure, the kind of expectations Facebook set for their interviews, was nowhere close to the reality. It was awful.
180° was for Booking.com
Guess the saying stands true, expectations always lead to disappointment.
Finally I feel de-stressed and my Diwali vacation starts AFTER Diwali ended. Or rather just a regular weekend.
2021 has been terribly awful year for me. Hope this shitty year ends soon.
rant