Join devRant
Do all the things like
++ or -- rants, post your own rants, comment on others' rants and build your customized dev avatar
Sign Up
Pipeless API
From the creators of devRant, Pipeless lets you power real-time personalized recommendations and activity feeds using a simple API
Learn More
-
@AleCx04
I mean, I also dislike VB.net because of the beggar mentality among its community, but that's a bit fucked up. At least master the mute switch before you become a consultant. -
@SortOfTested I would not call it beggar mentality, specially since Microsoft is known to just completely decimate tech stacks that they make their community uses and then ignore everything else. There are millions of lines of code of enterprise level VB.NET applications running, heck, there were millions of VB6. If they want to fuck shit up then for the love of everything that is holly please do VBA, it is about the one incarnation of VB that I loathe and the ONE technology I can really say that I hate(you will not see me complain about Java, C#, or PHP or whatever, but VBa? VBA I hate) and for Microsoft to just ignore them in place of C# is just fucky in my opinion.
In some consultant services I did in the past, I would take about 8 out of the 10 VB.NET apps they would ask me to work with, but C#? it was a constant nope, the language lets people get far too "elegant" with the BS they make, and we both know, that not every C# dev out there is good enough -
@AleCx04
Def, gotta kill VBA with fire. VSTA was a thing, but the VB core refused to learn it. Most C# devs are shit, you've seen me write at length about my grievances on the base. That comes with catering to enterprise, unfortunately. Hire to a price point and peddle $7500 dev tools to make up the skills gap and that's what you get.
As for the beggar mentality, it is what it is: at its peak, the vb.net base was 14% of the .Net ecosystem, but got a similar amount of funding for tooling and development. It's a question of resource allocation at that point, vb devs got more dollars per capita. Similar to how residential rural communities rarely pay enough in taxes to cover the services provided to them (roads, $2M/mile for 2 lane roads, high voltage lines are $300k/mile).
People will of course argue that F# has even less users. The difference is that team pushes the envelope and inspired numerous features in the other languages. It has value as an incubator, and costs very little to support. The VB.net team, did their best to keep up, but was basically the "don't move my cheese" language for .Net. It existed for no other reason than to allow Microsoft to move the office devs to a more modern language. We all know how that went. -
@SortOfTested I do agree with everything you said, at the same time, what about the cries from competent members of the community that said "make it open source and we will take care of it then?" who were absolutely ignored.
I have noticed that the number of people that use a tech stack in comparison with the skilled people that can increase said tech stack had a very interesting level of variance inside of the development community. You don't need +500 people to contribute to something as long as there are a group of very smart and dedicated people that can take control of the code and continue to build the language. I mean, just look at Nim when compared to the Rust community, one is massive and maintained and monetized by the Mozilla foundation, the other is a bunch of people having fun. I doubt that the same could be said for the VB.NET people. I don't have high opinions of the VB.NET people, but the codebases are at least easier to <T>{under;stand}(thant the;<T,[(1)]> )others -
@AleCx04
Probably because there's already a dozen third party attempts to make an open source VB.net (mercury, elements, etc) and none of them succeeded. And it probably can't be built without leaking IP. -
Choosing a language is also an engineering problem, same as using it. Most people seem to not think about that. VB.NET compiles to CLR which is the same where C# compiles to making the actual language used completely a preference of a developer. I would say that using VB6 is a bit risky because of how old it is but aside from that, its a completely valid language.
-
@SortOfTested Mercury and Elements are not two separate entities, Mercury is the REM Objects version of the VB language adapted to their stuff and they just announced it 9 months or so ago. I wouldn't called it a failed project just yet since REM O has been around for a while and doing wonders (Oxygen is amazing)
I have been following on their Mercury implementation in the event of Microsoft doing what they do best: killing their successful projects because heaven knows wtf and would like to keep playing with VB, not just because I actively enjoy and appreciate the language, but because my dba can really pull magic with it. -
@arekxv I would not use VB6, I did appreciate it though, but installing it on w10 turns into a hack and at that point I am out.
VB.NET in comparison is to mee a perfectly valid language to use for practically anything that I can think for server and web based development inside of Windows (my main target platform) for which a lot of the features that people cry about on c# of other languages I seldom use.
VB.NET is the reason why I am so hesitant to continue using microsoft technology, perfectly capable language which is also easy to use, better supported on Visual Studio, and with a loving community that is still being kicked to the curve in favor of attracting the node js camp into .net core.
Hey, {}; is familiar syntax! -
@AleCx04
I don't see it providing any value for its exhorbitent pricetag. Its just seems to wrap a bunch of shit that already exists and target a backend runtime as limiting abstraction. They're basically reselling LLVM at $50/language/month.
Since they're a monthly licensing model, I'd be very worried about buying into the ecosystem and the company disappearing one day. -
@SortOfTested "It just seems to wrap some shit that already exists" you mean sort of like the entire .net when jvm? something like that?
Have you seen at their implementation of Oxygen or are we talking about a very high and far away overview of the platform? Cuz I see shit there in the language that I have not seen in (for example) the FPC for the entire platform. I could say the same for the ability of cross platform development.
"a backend runtime as limiting abstraction" you arr going to have to explain this to me, read it twice, made no sense.
Heck I might need to get a more conservative picture of the price tag. Early bird for mercury is $39.99, that to me is nothing for any actual organization 🥴
A couple of months back we were discussing sh with a third party vendor for a very large ass fuck system that another department uses. I had been called into the meeting because the entire I.T department counts on me to at least act as an assessor to the many issues that other departments might have.
the department for which i was working with manages the databases that our institution uses, and in this particular question the DBA (my best friend mind you) was part of the meeting.
Mind you, issues that the third party vendor were having were all fixed by our DBA, and he had documented and mentioned these items to me as I provided assistance to him through the 3 weeks prior to this meetings. Once such case was that we needed a transitioning as well as intermediary system for some processes to happen from one DB to the other and a lot of other technical babble. Well, the DBA used to be an excellent (fuck you) VB developer who recently re-learned the language into .net. He had shown me many of his old programs and even by the limitations of the language they were elegant and fascinating. They really are and ya'll devrant fam know that I ain't one to hate on tech at all.
When the DBA explained how he went around some of the issues by generating programs that could assist him, he mentioned the tech stack, I had coached him into knowing that being descriptive about the tools he used would be beneficial to everyone else. While he mentioned VB.NET the vendor snickered and my boy got quiet.
Then I broke the silence, fuck you. "what was that?" and the dude said "nothing, sorry"
So I said "no no, I want to know, I am not going past this point until you, the dude getting paid over $100 an hour for something YOU couldn't fix explain to me the little hehe moment you had"
The mfker went silent. then explained how he was aware that people were moving past vb.net and shit like that, me "imagine that, someone used a tech stack that your ignorance thought obsolete to fix something you could not solve, even though we are paying you for it, were it me or in my hands, and mind you i have direct access to the VP so this foolishness might change, I would have cut you and your little sect loose months ago, I have no patience, or appreciation from leeches like you or the rest of the "professionals" that work for your company or other similar entities, much less, as you can see, my patience runs even less when you people snicker at the solutions that our staff has to take when you all slack"
The entire meeting was uncomfortable as high heaven.
Fuck you, if someone I know manages to run shit on fucking liberty basic then so fucking be it. I will slap you 10 fucking times over, and then fuck your girl, if you try to put someone else down for the tech stacks you use.
I hate neck beards, BUT I hate fake ass neckbeards ever more
*Colin Farrell in true detective mode: FUCK....YOU
rant
i hate third party vendors