I think a question should be added to tech interviews and maybe the most important one.

How many times in a week do you use Google/internet to look for a solution to/information about ur problems.

Tests for a developers ability to learn or try to figure things out themselves..

Feels like a lot of people on my team just do it the way it's always been done ,. Which is ahitty.. and if they don't know something,.. they need to ask someone instead of trying to figure it out themselves...

Reminds me of that fish adage?

They never learn how to fish....

"So you don't know every single one of [programming language/library] 's function definition and returns by heart? I'm sorry, we're looking for someone with a bit more experience. Thanks for wasting your time coming here to undertake our (very) poorly designed interview."

I honestly cannot tell from the OPs post what he is in favor of. I read it 3 or 4 times and I still end with an ambiguous interpretation.

Is figuring things out bad?

Is searching for how other people have solved things bad?

Is not knowing an API bad?

Is asking questions bad?

Is searching bad?

No clue what you are saying. Language barrier?

I have learned the most when: reading code from other sources, reading api specs, watching videos on youtube about how to take advantage of specific language approaches and programming styles, reading questions and answers on SO (especially the abstract and nitty gritty details), talking to people I work with, talking to people on forums, and then experimenting and figuring things out. Some combination of these has allowed me to be successful in retaining meaningful and challenging employment.

I think this is where the whole 'passionate about coding' type resume cliches come from.

Trying to find folks who CARE about how they do what they do and take the time to find new solutions, do it right, think of others and etc.

It's always hard to find a good test for that.

@N00bPancakes The best test for that is simply talking to the person and seeing what they’re like. It’s the hardest thing to fake.

@Root Evaluation of a person's abilities is not black and white fail on one question compatible. The problem is when non-technical people try to ask the questions to filter. I get it, the technical people are a limited resource, but if you really want to know what someone can do, you have to converse. I agree with you.

@Demolishun HR should not interview tech candidates. Perhaps a screen to make sure they’re not a fuckwit, but really, I think anyone can do that.

Tech people should interview tech candidates.
Business people should interview business candidates.
Accounting should interview accounting candidates.
HR should interview HR candidates.

@Demolishun not really hr... I just find a lot of devs on my team aren't very good at figuring things out themselves.

Can't debug, investigate well and seem go with "well that's the way the previous dev did it" rather than does this make any sense? Can you do it better, a better way?

Just feels like they don't ask questions or they can't find/evaluate the answers themselves

@donuts Okay, that makes a lot of sense. Thanks for clarifying.

@Root
I would go so far as to say HR should never interview. Any screen they do will be mechanical.

@SortOfTested Maybe even when interviewing HR. That would be how you get more shitty HR. Manager should be interviewing HR.

@Root

Amen, I don't think I've ever gotten anything out of an HR interview, I have no clue what they think they got, and when I was interviewing folks and we had meetings later HR's input was not worth squat.

That just leads me to bitch and moan about how HR somehow over the years has elevated itself in importance from a sort of employee customer service benefits / paperwork central to ... some sort of department that doesn't even do that anymore ... and their contributions are so immeasurable they just grow / change with no reason.

That’s the problem I see with many people who went to college. They learned “the” way to do it and use it for the rest of their lifes.

IMO a great dev doesn’t have to know shit, he/she just has to know how to figure it out and how to think.

But our schools get more and more knowledge oriented, they punish kids for thinking for themselves because they use a different approach then they’re teaching.

Example..
Teachers: 3% of n = n / 100% x 3

Kid: 3% of n = n x 0.03

Kid fails exam and becomes an alcoholic.

@just8littleBit Yeah, we had a math sub in freshman HS years ago. The question was for a fraction of something. The answer was 1/4, I had written 0.25. The sub didn't know they were the same. HTF does someone not know those are the same?

@Demolishun stupid pricks.. if I’ll ever have a kid I’ll either move to Sweden or send them to Ad Astra (Elon musks school)

@just8littleBit We can’t afford Ad Astra, so we’re homeschooling.

@demolishun might find this interesting:

I’m a terrible teacher, and often go way beyond what they can understand. Like both English and Gaelic at 2, negative numbers at 4 and basic algebra at 5. Whatever. They’ll get it eventually.

Better to have me as a terribly overzealous teacher than some collectivist/communist who teaches them only the bare minimum, plus outright destructive things like freedoms and thinking are bad, and that they should only ever do exactly as they are told. (As exemplified by the 0.25 vs 1/4 above, which reminds me of Common Core math where the correct answer is wrong if you used different steps to get there.)

Just.
Fuck. that.

@Root feels like you’re talking from my heart..
100% agree..

LOL.

Sometimes I google easy shit I KNOW how to do, just because copy/paste is faster than writing from scratch my self.

So yeah, about 15 times a day.

@Root Nop

We tried that. Talked with a person, he was pretty smart, always good answers. Very eager to learn.

First week, he has no idea what "new object()" does in c#.

@Root Or trying to tell your kids we don't live in a republic... I had that issue...

Sometimes I ask people questions to get a functioning workplace relationship. Sure google is there but so is my colleague. 80/20 ratio is good(google/colleague).

@Root the biggest scam in tech is letting hr be the first filter to tech candidates. They use retarded parameters to measure candidates, retarded psychological exams etc. Bitch, I am here to click mouse and keyboard, not to ace on your bullshit social-biased filters. Ond of those HR types suggested me I should go for a degree, the nerve...

@aviophile Agree ~

HR people are always, always the SJW diversity-first types. And they seem to only like people who share those same viewpoints. So if they’re a filter, you’re only ever going to get people they like, which means the company slowly but surely becomes exactly like them.

And does anyone actually like dealing with HR? Or find them pleasant and non-worrying to talk to?

Also, what is it with HR and having the ability to fire anyone for any reason whatsoever? They seem to have total power over people in companies despite not actually doing anything useful except setting up insurance and doing paperwork.

HR is scary. And giving them control over the hiring process? Scarier.

@Root talking only works if the person doing the interviewing is actually good.

I think that's where the A hires B, B hires C players comes from...

If interviewer only knows how to ask stupid questions then every candidate looks good...

@donuts Fair.
You need competence at all levels of the organization. Stupidity (and the Peter Principle) breed ruin.

I just read the thread and two takeaways, which I don’t really even know where to direct...

Except OP: how do that kind of people even get hired? Ok yeah, HR - but how are they not fired within a week of getting hired? I’m baffled.

Also, the whole HR topic floating around... it’s so absurd. It sounds surreal, like the things I read just can’t be from a real world. Surely HR can’t be *that* bad or wield so much power? ... I mean, I wouldn’t know. Around here tech peeps interview tech candidates, marketing dept interviews marketing candidates and so on...

@100110111 manager did interview that's the problem... Its not hr...