It’s so great to hear Apple is finally officially making the transition to rolling out their own silicon on everything... fucken fabulous. Sure there may be problems at first but this might just get the ball rolling to get more companies todo the same... we need to eliminate the silicon monopolies... ARM and rolling your own is the future... well it always use to be the standard... back in the day, until the whole modularity and lean manufacturing and order off the shelf shit came about .... but finally we have once again come full circle back to where things use to be.... pairing hardware with software fucken beautiful LOVE IT!!!

Sure this will affect portability but .... guess what folks... means more jobs for us... quit being lazy and complaining about having to work..

Love vertical integration!!!!

@molaram initial costs yes, long term costs you actually make more money and it drive quality actually.

I'll add a potential plot twist:

They never said ARM. Will we see a third entry into the battle for x86 domination?

@SortOfTested if they don’t use arm even more power to them. But I think based on that the iPad, iPod, iPhone and watch are all use the Apple “A” chips or some variant of it. All of those chips use an arm core IP block and the rest Apple designs around it IP block.

Also the Touch Bar that Apple began integrating into the laptops was the first chip on the laptops to be of the “A” Devices ... this arm on the laptop.

There was an article a few years ago about them wanting to go this route, finally is happening great.. wether it’s arm or their own IP idk either way is great imo.

@QuanticoCEO
We'll see. They're obviously gearing this one for suspense.

Gross man. I dislike the friendliness of Apple with every update. Making computational devices cute is discriminatory. No personal attack to you, by the way.

@SortOfTested & @QuanticoCEO I do believe that Apple would have to pay Intel or AMD (can’t remember which) some sort of licensing fee to produce x86-64 processors and we all know Apple is not about that life.

The only software I am really concerned about is my JetBrains suite, Docker and the various packages I install from brew

Get ready for all your favourite programs and games to never be usable on Macs ever again.

@SortOfTested I checked few videos and guides it’s arm64 confirmed

@err-occured I think i need to purchase few RPi and make a cluster to compile all the open source tools to arm arch

@PlatinumFire Rosetta 2??? I know that will work for the meantime, but it’s a start.

Besides adobe and Microsoft have already got their software working natively on Apple silicon and a 2 year transition period is good enough for all the decent apps to move across anyway

Anything at and above C level is fully portable unless you're a complete moron who can't read a language specification and uses whatever works on your machine. I think we'll be just fine.

@Lor-inc that is such a wrong statement

@hardfault Is it? Show me one program that doesn't break the standard and doesn't work the same on all cpus.

@Lor-inc I don’t have to do that, just read the documents that apple released

https://developer.apple.com/documen...

See compiler do more than just converting a high language code to a compatible binary
what we have here the ABI incompatibility as well as hw architectural incompatibility

I have said it before writing a good code with all the standard for a programming language is not enough to make a good professional software ( or good software).
Also Apple only mentioned few road blocks , i am sure as the actual work starts these will get pilled up, they will have to go at least 4-5 HW redesign before they achieve the same or better quality in SW

> "long term costs you actually make more money and it drive quality actually."

I don't understand how that would work. More diversity = less experts in the field, more money pumped into cross-platform support.

At the end of the day, Apple really seems to want out of having video games on their platform.

That said knowing them they probably just want to gate-keep what GPUs can of what with their hardware even more so.

Is that a bad thing though, they’ve demoed what shadow of the tomb raider and dirt rally can look like on an A12Z bionic chip, admittedly not looking great by PC gaming standards, but it opens up so much potential that with enough work, modern games can run on ARM chips or Apple Silicon anyway

@Lor-inc, @devTea lives below C level

@electrineer aye aye captain

@gronostaj the reason it drives quality is because the hardware is then specific for their platform, system and product. Everything is in “sync” ... things that arnt needed arnt put in... thing they need more of are put in. They won’t have to pay for features of the intel or amd chip they arnt using.

They can focus on making a coherent system and are no longer tied to the mercy of another companies “architecture” or chip prices... philosophy or anything.

It’s the same reason I believe it’s foolish for companies to build their entire product around JAVA... you are at the direct mercy of oracle! Licensing .. JRE.. JDK... all of it tied to oracle.. and at the end of the day they make no hardware to support you... their product you are tied to is not tangible, thus risk of being completely eliminated at any time.

C# and swift/objective c is bad in the sense of the same reasoning the only upside is the garenteed market.. either windows systems or Apple systems.. I argue your swift / objective c code has the POTENTIAL of being a higher quality product due to the language and system design being very tightly coupled to their hardware system.. where as c# you an only optimize to the runtime environment rather than system as a whole with hardware. So this less quality and user experience across platform variants typically can be diminished .. and this is true with almost all PC applications.. running a application on one PC with hardware specs does not run the same with experience wise on another the software cannot dynamic adjust it self to run optimally based on system hardware.. and the runtime environment of which is support to handle that does a shity job at it.

Anyway this is why custom hardware vs off the shelf .. long term typically improves quality ... because you end up optimizing the system to the needs of the entire product and build an ecosystem around it.. rather than safeguard and put shit in just to Satisfy an off the shelf part.

@PlatinumFire soooo what.. I’m so sick of people getting so focused on video games... ohhh boo hoo you can’t play video games on a Mac .. I don’t really know any gamers that are like dude.. i only game on Mac .. if you wanna game use a pc.. this isn’t isn’t the world of equality and designing systems so the gamers have the same opportunities of playing video games on a Mac.. or Mac users in general having the opportunity to play games on their Mac without needing to get a pc or console..

Sure do you loose out on that market share? Absolutely.. is it worth it .. I think so. Considering the average / vast majority video game lifespan is very short lived in retrospect of development time.. and cost to support. Big league titles that have been around and have a very strong community for 7+ years might be worth supporting but then again.. why? Probably just fine with giving that market to pc where the user can fine tune the hardware to their desires.

Personally I hate the video game industry.. I get it many of us in the software industry began our journey into software due to hacking or modding or whatnot or dreaming of being a video game designer or whatever. I know at a time I did.. but at the end of the day why? Why are so many people attracted to video games... is it the trendy nature? Seeing everyone else play so you must too? Does it actually release stress? What real world skills do you gain from the invested time into “playing” ... nothing this is why I don’t like video games an incredible waste of time..

sure it’s fun for a while (I’ve been there) but look at the time that was wasted you could be learning more about software.. a new language.. skill.. hell deep diving further into a specific topic.

Idk the return on investment of video games is incredibly low. I heavily played video games from a young app thru high school until senior year... then it occurred to what an incredible waste of and haven’t played since even 12 years later

@QuanticoCEO Honestly, you need to chill.
Some of us just like having fun.

@PlatinumFire I don’t need to chill you need a reality check

@QuanticoCEO You just legitimised a business decision with your personal preferences. I don't think it's @PlatinumFire who needs a reality check.

@Lor-inc my bad... I forgot.. my opinion is wrong and purely based on opinion with none of the statements I said being regarded a truth due to the initial established premise being solely based on opinion.. while the counter arguments defense of the stance was also let me remind you... purely an opinion as well, but weak in the sense it was 1 short statement.

With a follow up response of of an “action” I need to take.

I need to “chill” due to my opinion being “objectively true”... but subjectively false... thus in this community it would then mean objectively false....

sorry forgot for a second what “kind” of people are the majority of the folks in this community and what their world view is and how facts are derived and received

@QuanticoCEO A significant portion of the world likes to play PC games. Another, not separate portion has only one computer. Apple's price tags are a very practical reason to not buy another computer. If I'm paying that much, it should do all but clean the dishes. Arguing that it doesn't need to run games because you don't like them (and then supporting the claim that they're bad rather than that they're not in demand) isn't exactly realistic.

@Lor-inc no I argued that’s not the market they are selling to. And I gave reasons why I support it.

As I own a company, I have a market.. it’s far better to create a product that is specific in nature and really good at a particular thing. Rather than be good at everything because nothing is good at everything...

Regardless of price.

Apple sells a lot of computers.. a lot of products in general. If they had an issue regarding not meeting sales quotas due to price or specs they would change. But they don’t, their customers or vast customers are fine with it. If you are a dev and want to play video games but own a Mac well either buy a PC or figure out what you really want todo.

As a CEO you have to make hard decisions, and if they are good, people will buy things if they are bad people wont buy them it’s that simple. But you don’t know unless you try.

Only one thing is for certain in the world of business.. products that are good at one thing or a subset are superior to the “jack of all trades, master of none” approach... sure you can sell millions and billions by just getting by but where does your priorities live quality or quantity.

Quantity = PC/Windows

quality = Mac

What irony that someone who says they know better, then claims Mac focuses on quality.

Instead of, you know, relying on branding and forcibly staying incompatible to the rest of the world because without it they'd fail where many other companies have succeeded.

Ignorance is not quality, and their products are far from ideal.

@PlatinumFire for software development I find macs superior to pc development... that is of course unless you are doing heavy graphics, AI development, but I would just deploy to the Linux farm for run the training. Windows development is great for C# applications. But other than that personally I find software development being a better smoother experience on Mac, specifically due to the terminal, native Unix POSIX support

@PlatinumFire I actually have to agree with @QuanticoCEO in terms of quality, I’ve had the same entry level MacBook Pro for 6 years, that can’t be said for some of the people I know who have gone through 2-3 windows laptops costing minimum £600 - £800 each in the same amount of time.

And yes, they may be inferior to other laptops in some areas, in terms of software development, I have to download very little to start developing, whereas on Windows it’s a massive headache that’s can waste so much time

@err-occured exactly. I have a 17in MacBook Pro from 2011 and it’s still kicking away, upgrading ram and to an ssd and it’s still great! I will be upgrading when the new silicon chips come out

@QuanticoCEO niiiice, I’m waiting until I can no longer get any macOS updates for my Mac and then I’ll upgrade my Mac to Apple Silicon. I can’t wait to see what performance they can deliver along with battery life.

@err-occured battery life should be amazing, I’m sure they won’t release something of less performance than what they have now atleast in the first couple iterations I expect it to be improved battery life, and equivalent performance. I will be shocked if it’s improved performance... but to be far they may have been planning this for a while because they haven’t really released a Mac with i9 until very recently keeping the macs on the lower intel spectrum allowing for a “gap” to build from current macs to the new macs with the arm, so they could legit say its improved performance from what is currently for sale. Interesting business approach well thought out lol.