How I fucking hate those programmers who say they only can do backend stuff because they don't like front-end work... You godamn pussies, as a programmer you have to be able to adapt to a given projects requirements. If you are not able to do that you are not a real developer in my eyes. So grow a pair and the next time you have the chance to do some frontend work take it, maybe there is someone who in return would like to dable in some backend work for once.

Its not the work. Its the bro-culture of the front end folks that is the turn off. Code is code.

Admission: I do mostly GUI work which I guess could be called "frontend".

There's more to development than making websites. I make some ugly ones to provide a view to the applications I write, but I make no effort to make them framework-tastic. But the most important output my applications generate is json.

@bahua of course I did not mean that it has to be perfect for that you hire designers. but if you are working with limited resources and have an employee who still has capacities but they refuse to work certain tickets just because they don't like the kind of work it would provide...this is just unprofessional

There's more to development than just ugly shiny GUIs

They can only do backend because front end already switched frameworks at least 10 times when you finished mastering one of them.

I switched to "No Code that shit yourself" solutions, so that they can do theire shit themselfs.

I agree on principle, though I'd avoid the term "real dev" as that term is generally marginalizing. I use the term "foxhole engineer" for this class of dev. I have rage moments with die-hard (try hard?) aspnet/struts/servlet devs who want to put everything in their comfort zone. That said, I've also spent way too much time rewriting craptastic laravel/node/js code from self proclaimed amazing front end devs who were weak on the CS front.

For me it's just mono-skill devs who don't seek broader exposure. I know for a fact if I hadn't dug into multiple languages, frameworks paradigms and targets I would be in the same boat. There's too many people who are in it for high pay, high prestige and don't actually love it.

Well usually, it isn't a good idea to let someone loose on something he totally isn't familiar with - but frontend is an exception because so many frontend devs don't even know basics either, like proper usage of HTML and CSS.

On the other hand, that's also why it's likely that the frontend has already been botched up with stupid apeshit like Bootstrap, and also jQuery doing CSS' job left and right. That's a good reason to refuse touching it with anything other than burning Molotov cocktails.

@Fast-Nop
This. jQuery and bootstrap are application cancer in 2020.

@s0LA Crap like Bootstrap DOESN'T make the job easier. It makes it harder, les smaintainable and more bloated. The whole idea of CSS frameworks is stupid.

@s0LA The framework is the last thing you should do. If you start abstracting into thin air, how would you know whether the abstractions are even any good for your use case?

Hint: most frontend devs don't. They try to escape through flight forward and embrace ever new hypes, hoping that they will finally hit the holy grail by accident.

What happens instead is that they stumble into one latrine after the other, and websites become ever more crappy.

@s0LA Well there was a lot of crap back then, too. Eye-burning colour palettes, "best viewed with browser X at resolution Y", Flash abuse, splash pages, stupid animated GIFs, marquee, blink, frames, meta refresh, layout tables, layout frames composed of GIFs (especially the corners), all the presentational garbage in the dark ages of HTML 3.

And just as today, frontend devs were striving to deliver the worst possible result with whatever means they had available to fuck it up.

But given that many of them were just hobbyists, that was more forgivable than today where these clowns even have the audacity to demand money for their atrocities.

@RememberMe Sorry, ranting again. ^^

Writing new websites over and over again is like writing calculator applications over and over again with visually different buttons in different order. Change my mind.

I agree, unless it's web. In that case frontend can make up it's mind already or stop using dumb frameworks where you need to study it to make something you already knew how to make in the first place. And that whole "it saves time thing". Yes it saves time for YOU because you have spent quite a long time getting to grips with the ridiculous naming conventions and structure...