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@2lazy2debug Hi
You did give me inspiration, thank you very much.
What do you think of the "open source but backend stuff" model that Taylor Otwell, for example, employs with Laravel.
I have mucho respect for this guy's marketing chops, AND insane programming skill. Truly a double threat. Lots of people employ this business model though, is that something you think you could apply as well? -
I will drop that in a matter or days OR money problems OR not much time
I am mostly the 3rd one
as a student and doing programming stuff, it is so hard to make time for this.
programming takes time, like finding a semicolon takes 3 hours, which is such a long time to use when you are actually studying other things (math, science etc)
really want more time, but that is impossible -
@TobyAsE
This is the hardest part. Luckily, the marketing world has come up with ways to know exactly how much money you'll make, before you even begin writing. Took me a long ass time to learn that the hard way, but I'm actually writing that chapter right now as you read this. It's based on math and basic psychology and it works.
Thanks for reminding me that this is a big hurdle for people. In fact, nearly everyone I tell that I own my own business will reveal to me their own dreams of starting one, and usually, it's something they are doing on the side and are scared to make that final leap of quitting job. It's oviously scary as fuck.
In the end, all you need is a carefully crafted plan to give you the confidence you need to execute it. Once you see some numbers and can envision how it will all go down, and know what to do on a day to day, it becomes possible. -
@CozyPlanes
Thank you for this, this reminds me that I need to really focus on the essential part of my book, which is:
Finding SMALL software, that produces enough money to at least live on.
something that takes a month or so to code in 2 hours a day, and can produce $2000 a month in residual income.
I want the reader to be able have that goal, and execute it confidently by reading my book.
In your situation, it's about priorities, and time. You have a lot on your plate, you need to work extra hard to know:
a) why do I want to write my own software, is that something i should even try right now, or is finishing school more important, or can I do both?
b) if I can do both, what are the times I can work during the week where i won't be so tired that I can actually do it, how much time?
c) where is my small software idea, specificaly? does time from b) realistically achieve making it?
It just takes time and effort in planning, and then deciding to execute. -
Building on @2lazy2debug's first comment, almost everything I've developed by myself has been something I needed to automate for my personal use. I always have a hard time figuring out if anything of what I've made could be published or even sold because for me they're extremely suited for my needs and my needs only.
I don't know if there are more people who share that feeling. I think that'd be something worth addressing in the book, don't you think? -
@ethernetzero
absolutely, thanks so much for sharing, I put your comment in my "brainstorming journal"
The short answer? What problem are you solving, how many people have this problem? Can they get the solution somewhere else? If so, is that soln heloping them? Why or why not? Can you do better? What are they paying for curernt soln, is that enough to feed you?
There, short answer, lol.
I was about to address this in my reply to @2lazy2debug and I'm handling it by outlining the parameters one needs to have in order to evaulate if something is sellable, or not. Trying to use programming speak as much as possible when showing these marketing concepts. These concepts are kind of deep, even know they can be shallowly understood, like for example "whats a niche". The answer is a sentence, or an entire class at Harvard. -
@rant1ng Having some sort of guidelines for identifying what can become a viable product or published project would be awesome, yes.
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I find the biggest hurdles are inspiration and being scared of my skills or the final product not being good enough.
I can't seem to find something that doesn't already exist (or that I can significantly improve) and would be really useful.
I also constantly doubt my skills and the code I write.
If you've got tips on this (mostly the first point) I'd definitely appreciate reading about them in your book. -
Soo, speaking from a junior developer perspective:
I currently have my first side project that I want to sell as soon as it will be done and here are the things I struggled with:
- software licensing to protect my software
- installing software on users pc in a simple way (making an installer), checking if user have dependecies and handle if not (jvm, .net, etc)
- how do I manage licenses/keys for the software? You can't just provide link to .exe after payment...
- make sure to pay taxes to explain to the authorities where are these money from
- how to support project after release? E.g. how to notify user about new versions? Especially if the software is designed to run offline
- Should I release if there are some non critical bugs that are hardly noticable?
I am still not sure about some of them :D hope that will help :) -
If if flops, there is nobody paying you anyway. The bigger the risk, the higher the outcome. If you just get hired by someone any get paid per hour, you have to work, but if the software isn't selling good, the company still gets money out of other products and is able to pay you. You cannot pay yourself if there is no money. Then you have to get a bussiness license and stuff like that.
Would love to read your book, wrote one myself, about a conpletely differen topic, a few months ago. -
@YADU
Your answer reminds me of what the problem (or solution) is, and that is simply that it isn't that nobody here can't understand advertising, it is that they have dedicated their time to understanding programming.
"Like what kinds of software are good for this? "
The kind that solves problems for a specific subset of people that you can group into a "niche". For example, what problem are you solving, and who would like to have it solved, and how much are they willing to pay? Simple questions, hard answers.
"How do i get an audience to sell to?"
When you have created a good solution, the audience comes to you almost automatically... almos.
"How do i actually go about selling it?"
Again, it's all about knowing your customer, knowing the niche, knowing the problem you're solving, and knowing who else is trying to solve it, and whether you can solve it better or not, and then knowing exactly how/why and communicating that to them. -
@FMashiro thanks for your comment.
"I find the biggest hurdles are inspiration and being scared of my skills or the final product not being good enough."
What is "good enough". That is the real question, and while there's a simple answer, the nuts and bolts of it is more complex. Good enough is, does it meet your goals of WHY you would create a product in the first place.
"I can't seem to find something that doesn't already exist (or that I can significantly improve) and would be really useful."
Ahh.. that's where understanding marketing REALLY pays off. Because, 90% of the time, the leader in a market doesn't necessarily have the BEST solution, they just have the best way of communicating said solution to a pre-defined market. THAT's what confuses programmers a lot, and scientists, and that's the problem I"M trying to solve. -
@FMashiro
continuing..."
"being scared of my skills" not sure what you meant here, but... you also wrote
"code not being good enough"
here's the good thing about writing software for end users.... they only care about the final product, if you write "bad" code, it's only going to affect YOU, there's no team, or boss, or peers... if your software does the job and sells and makes you a living, and you have shit code, but your customers are happy, then who cares. Yes, that's cowboy, but it's the reality. The only real consequences in this case of bad code, is security issues, and then, you having to improve the code later on, and not being able to read it and hating yourself for writing bad code in the first place. -
@WilliamDyer
Software license: if your software is so good, that so many people are stealing it, then you'll make a shit ton of money and won't care, because there are way more honest people than assholes out there that will pay you, so that's a quality problem and definitely not worrying about. In fact, it's more likely an excuse, than a legit problem to worry about, which is typical of fear of starting a business. -
@WilliamDyer
"- installing software on users pc in a simple way " DETAILS, SIMPLE don't worry about it
"- how do I manage licenses/keys for the software? "
asked and answered.
"- make sure to pay taxes to explain to the authorities where are these money from"
again, details...
"- how to support project after release? E.g. how to notify user about new versions? Especially if the software is designed to run offline
- Should I release if there are some non critical bugs that are hardly noticable?"
details again.
Your problem is fear, not these details. And that is justified. IT's scary to write your own software and sell it. You just have to be scared and do it anyway. Easier said then done, but that is the #1 thing people who own businesses (and make a shit ton of money) will use against you to keep you in a job. -
@Joni4Games
As I mentionned to someone else.... this is largely a myth. If a business isn't making money, they will fire you and go out of business.
They are 99% for sure making a shit ton of money, you just don't know about it. In fact, they want you to think they are struggling.
Even if they are, in fact, struggling, and it's genuine, and yes, they pay you anyway, great.
But for all the hard work you're doing, there's no reason why you can't figure out what makes a business succeed, and what doesn't, and then apply that, as solid, logical principles, and succeed.
Business isn't luck. It's knowledge. Another myth business owners would like perpetuated. -
@PhiloticGhost
"I've got a big list of ideas"
Ideas are good! keep writing them down, even if 95% of them, upon reread, are stupid, that's 5% you wrote down that are good. Always write ideas, make it a habit.
"' but most of them feel like either too small a problem or like they would be incredibly difficult to monetize.""
Again, you are thinking along the right lines, so you already have knack for this. You just need some more detailed information about what constitues "monetization" how much is needed.. you need some metrics, as do most programmers I know I did.
Take out your list of ideas, and evaluate them on a scale of 1-10 based on this criteria:
1-10 - time of development
1-10 - my personal intereste
1-10 - how much can i charge
1-10 - whats the competition like
1-10 - how easy is it to each my audience
1-10 - I am a user of this product and I undertand my market
1-10 - I would still want to do this 5 years from now
I have more, but, space limits. -
@rant1ng
Thank you!
That evaluation criteria just got put into my workflowy right above the list of ideas I keep, planning to go through and evaluate the existing ones this weekend. -
If my software borders on service/instance (it would be relatively trivial to run as a service or sell copies instead) how do I choose, or should I do both?
If I decide to run a service, presumably I should write the backend in a way that can be scaled up easily, which isn't always something a developer will know. Are there some basic design principles to keep in mind that differentiate the two types of software, or can I design the software in a way that I can easily change my mind later? On a related note for services, should I sell a self-esteem option or just a subscription, and what would be the best way to scale these? (Low-end VPS, AWS pros and cons, etc.)
This book sound like a great idea. Hopefully my questions are somewhat relevant. -
I'm currently selling a service with a free and a monthly paid plan. The last few months I have noticed that my conversion rate has drastically dropped, and I am struggling to find out why. I would love to learn how to distinguish between what features should be paid or free, as well as how to price it.
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So I’ve been working on my project for the last 3 months. It’s a video game which I’m working on alone. I’m doing all the coding, design and graphics by myself. It’s really my first that big project. I’m not afraid of hearing criticism, heck - I would love to hear it so I could improve my future work!
I’m more afraid of lack of it... What I mean is I’m afraid of my project just wooshing into the void of all the other games that didn’t took off. You know, I’ve invested most of my free time in this project, instead of hanging out with friends and family. And in terms of money... I will be happy if it will make just enough to fund my next project.
So in the end, I just wanna get noticed by anyone! -
@powerfulparadox
If my software borders on service/instance .. run as a service or sell copies instead ?""
Service always makes more money, and in the history of all apps I've ever seen or made, there are ALWAYS ways to make it better, so you will definitely be adding to it constantly, SAAS makes more sense for that reason as you know.
"write the backend in a way that can be scaled up easily, "
ONLY if you can see that it will be warranted, you can write a ... "half" scalable soln first in the interest of time. This is what I did for my recent project, when I had to scale, I rewrote some of the engine for scale, it only took 3 weeks.
The basic philosophy here is do as much you have to in order to make customers happy, but not more. That is a dance you have to engage in constantly, and in the beginning, to save you effort and time, you need to do as little as possible until you KNOW effort will pay off. -
@powerfulparadox
just to add to this, I don't want to misunderstood, you should always have clean code that's easily scalable and always have good products and all of that.
But too many people here are perfectionists and in my experience, when I'm overly perfectionist, the project never gets done ,and I get discouraged. The main thing is understanding who customer is in the tightly defiined market in which you are selling, knowing what they want, and delivering just enough to compete, so to put food on the table.
You can get perfectionist in version two with the money you're making from version 1. -
@powerfulparadox
on further thought.... to anyone reading this please ++ this if you'd like some specific examples on how to balance just how many features to add and whether or not to scale, based on marketing decisions, which you may not be experienced in.;
I think I answered my own question here... I'll use some specific case studies on this point because honestly, this is one of the hardest parts to creating your software, deciding on the features. I'm sure usually you are told what features to add, and that's about as much thought as you put into it. When you are on your own,, it is admittedly daunting, but I have done it so many times I'm used to it now.
Thanks again for your question! That was a tough one made me think, thanks. -
@Frederikam
Here's a simple soln that may make you smack your head:
Have you asked your visitors?
My favourite thing to do in this spot, is put up a survey, maybe on exit
"Hey, why didn't you by? I'm trying to improve my marketing, and I'll give you a free copy if you'll give me all the sincere reasons you didn't buy. "
something like that, if you have something else to give away thats valuable and more comfortable with, give that away, whatever you're comfortable with
people will surprise you with their honest answers and you'll learn a lot about your product and your customers
but I suspect the culprit here might be competition, but it could be a lot of things -
@athlon
You're in a tricky spot. You're putting all your time and energy into something that is unknown. That is generally not the position I'd like to be in, sometimes its unavoidable. I commend you on your passion and dedication, but you have to be careful of burning yourself out, which is a real danger.
All I can do in this short character limit is ask you some hard questions:
1) When it will it make money / how will it make money. What is the vision you see in your head? That it'll just take off on it's own because people will like it? That is not a good plan, it's based on luck.
2) If it's a passion project, and will need much more work, are there other project you can work on to generate some money?
In other words, unless it's pretty much almost done and you have a carefully crafted specific marketing plan, I'd be careful.
I know maybe not what you want to hear.
I'll end with a simple Q. How will it make money? -
@2lazy2debug
Ecosystem. Exactly. That's what I was getting at. Can you blueprint one out, list the specific projects you can do with dev time, etc, and then execute that around it? Do you think it's worth it? Is the community big enough for what you're writing a solutino for?
Taylor's got spark, forge, the new admin tool, etc. The guy is making 8 figures, easily.
That's obviously very high level and he's been doing it for like... what, 8 years.
But still, if you can see even 1/4 of that for your project, well, that's still a lot of money.
I'm writing a book that teaches everything I have learned in the past 20 years about writing small niche software and selling it.
Need some help from my fellow DevRanters.
Anyone who comments here with something constructive gets a free copy when it's done.
When I say:
"Why don't you just write your own software and sell it to end users"
What is the first thing that pops into your head?
Is it "I don't know how to advertise"
or
"that's a pipe dream"
or
"I tried starting my own business, but _______"
or
"I am doing that, i have this side project "
(how long have you spent on that side project?)
I need to know all your concerns questions fears, skepticism etc around the idea of writing your OWN software.
After 20 years I have like, so much knowledge, but it's sometimes hard to get it all out, UNLESS someone has a question or concern, then, out it comes.
So, I'm going to (hopefully) collect all the questions here ... and answer them, and it'll help me out a lot to extract this knowledge.
A lot of stuff I do without even thinking and realizing all the years it took to even know that.
What would you like to know the most?
You have the skills, you have the know how, you can probably see it in your head, so what's stopping you from making the leap?
question
your own business
why the fuck haven't you started yet
no more bosses
no more clients
residual income from a one time effort
no more teams