Me: “Hi, Client. Did you review my proposal?”

Client: “Yes. You asked me to pay you using dollar bills. I found someone else who will do the work for mere pennies. Have a nice life!”

How does anyone make any money in web design and development anymore?

relations / eating lunch with clients

Swith to a SaaS model, customize upon request

I think it’s because where I used to do freelance, I’m now running an agency where I hire others to do the work that I coordinate, so I do have at least one other person on this project. The irony is that this proposal was a second try with just me doing the work at the agency rate. My agency rate is $25/hr lower than everyone else. To be competitive, I would have had to do the work at about $14/hr. I have a mortgage and a family to feed. If I’d wanted to work in retail, I’d have done that as a career and made more than I can make now as a developer.

I wonder more about how in the world can someone build a site for pennies as a business or transaction (not including special cases). What in the world does this guy feed himself with?

@Japorized I’ve found that as an agency I lose business to my colleagues who are younger, less experienced freelancer types with low income requirements. They’re typically single or coupled but childless living in smaller, cheaper dwellings. As an older person, I’ve acquired a certain lifestyle and am raising multiple children and so I need more from my agency’s gigs to make them worthwhile. So unless I’m willing to be in a lower income bracket, I’m basically screwed for most work. Occasionally I’ll find something from a bigger, more established business that doesn’t have its own web shop but that’s so rare it’s not even funny. So I have a full time job as well to keep food in everyone’s mouths and a roof over their heads.

As a permanent member of staff or a part of an agency/firm... I've avoided freelancing because of this.

@stackodev I understand that. It’s just sad somehow consumers don’t even care about a web dev’s experience. Where’s the care about quality? It’s not to say that less experienced devs can’t produce quality apps, but consumers would usually pay for people with more experience to get stuff done in other fields. Is it because websites/apps are intangible, that consumers feel like they aren’t worth their money? Or is it simply because they don’t understand what’s being done for them?

But then again, that’s typical human behavior and logic; one doesn’t just immediately understand another’s circumstances, and usually assumes that they themselves have lives worse off than others, especially those that they ask for help or service, and end up believing that they should deserve better. And in a world where we’ve been educated that customer is king, it’s not surprising to see that more and more people are expecting to be treated as one. I digress.

Do hang in there

@stackodev you see, you yourself have undercut others by lowering your prices to 25/hr. As long as people are willing to lower their prices to be "competitive", it will drive down the costs to a point that it won't be enough to earn a living from it.

Also sorry, accidentally pressed the report button on your comment...

when "cheapest price" rules, it's a race to the bottom. It devalues everyone. It makes it hard for the more experienced people to receive fair compensation, and in time for those who are "bottom pricing" they can't get out of it.

The only winner is the buyer, of course this is said with a massive assumption that the quality of output is comparable.

I'm a 46 year old, changing careers from PM/BA into Dev (mobile), with mortgage/family/aging parents. It's brutal. But for me, I just can't continue working in a none-creative way, it was killing me to essientally be a paper pusher and argument arbitrator.

This is the world we find ourselves in. I hate saying it, but as long as someone is willing to sell their skill cheap, it's ALWAYS a race to the bottom.

@ClemFrieckie "Well, I saw someone who could build it for half the price on WordPress...Can you give me that price?"

Price !=> quality.
If a competitor is doing something for mere pennies, it's likely to be a steaming pile and need replacing within the year, thus negating the savings.
That said, some clients just don't care!

@jAsE my degree is in Business Education and Computer Information Systems. Got it in 1999. The rest has been the school of hard knocks.

@rusty-hacker yup. I did lower my price to be competitive. Food and shelter were my motivation. ;) It’s not ideal.

You survive on people charging pennies often do a shitty job and then it get's expensive for real to sort out the shit fiesta with a good dev.